In this interview with ECPS, Dr. Semir Dzebo, Postdoctoral Researcher at the Centre for Socio-Legal Studies at the University of Oxford, examines Bosnia and Herzegovina’s October 4 elections through the lenses of populism, nationalism, secessionism, and ethnic politics. He argues that Bosnia remains marked by “stable instability”: Dayton secured peace but has struggled to function as a democratic constitution. Dr. Dzebo discusses “populist secessionism,” the erosion of anti-elite appeals under long incumbency, competing constructions of “the people,” Croat and Bosniak representation, foreign influence, disinformation, and the limits of territorial revisionism. Rather than expecting dissolution or a sweeping constitutional settlement, he points toward incremental reform, EU integration, stronger state capacity, desegregated schooling, cross-ethnic electoral incentives, and improved economic conditions.
Bosnia and Herzegovina approaches its October 4 elections amid renewed strain on the political architecture established by the Dayton Peace Agreement. More than three decades after the end of the 1992–95 war, questions of statehood, entity autonomy, ethnic representation, foreign influence, and the legitimacy of shared institutions remain deeply intertwined. Political competition continues to be structured less by a conventional left–right divide than by competing understandings of sovereignty, citizenship, collective rights, and of who constitutes the legitimate political community. Against this fragmented backdrop, the elections are not simply about who will govern Bosnia and Herzegovina, but about the character and durability of the post-Dayton state itself.
In this interview with the European Center for Populism Studies (ECPS), Dr. Semir Dzebo, Postdoctoral Researcher at the Centre for Socio-Legal Studies at the University of Oxford, examines these tensions through the lenses of populism, nationalism, secessionism, and ethnic politics. He argues that electoral competition in Bosnia carries unusually high constitutional stakes because “whatever coalition gets formed after the October 4th elections is, in a way, a choice about the state itself.” In this sense, the election resembles “a de facto referendum” on the country’s future political architecture.
A central theme of the conversation is what Dr. Dzebo conceptualizes as “populist secessionism.” Whereas ordinary nationalism operates along a horizontal axis of competition between national communities, populist secessionism introduces a vertical, moral division between an allegedly authentic people and corrupt or illegitimate elites. In this framework, political disagreement becomes morally charged: as Dr. Dzebo puts it, disputes that might otherwise be negotiated can acquire “this moral dimension that turns them into treason,” making compromise appear as capitulation.
The interview also explores the limits of this strategy. Dr. Dzebo’s research suggests that support for secession in Republika Srpska is driven less by populist attitudes than by ethnonational identification, ingroup bias, deteriorating intergroup relations, and economic grievance. Long incumbency, moreover, can erode the credibility of anti-elitism: voters predisposed against elites may increasingly view Milorad Dodik himself as part of the elite.
The broader diagnosis culminates in Dr. Dzebo’s assessment of Dayton itself. Bosnia, he argues, lives in a condition of “stable instability.” Dayton “has really accomplished the first task” of securing peace, but “has not really been great at the second task” of functioning as a democratic constitution. Yet he rejects both expectations of imminent dissolution and hopes for a sweeping constitutional reset, instead pointing toward incremental reform, EU integration, implementation of Strasbourg judgments, stronger state capacity, desegregated schooling, cross-ethnic electoral incentives, and improved economic conditions as the more plausible path toward a more cohesive democratic order.
Professor Lane Kenworthy (Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Yankelovich Chair in Social Thought at the University of California, San Diego).
Speakers
“The 2026 Midterms in Comparative Perspective: Shifting Support for Trumpism and the Issues Reshaping the Electoral Landscape,” byProfessor Sheri Berman (Professor at Department of Political Science, Barnard College, Columbia University).
“Explaining the Socialist Revival in the US,” by Professor Michael Kazin (Professor of History, Georgetown University).
“Democratic Resilience Amid Pernicious Political Polarization,” by Professor Jennifer McCoy (Regent’s Professor Emerita of Political Science, Georgia State University).
“Beyond Washington, DC: American Federalism and the Midterms,” by Professor Andrew Karch (Professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Minnesota).
Lane Kenworthy is a Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Yankelovich Chair in Social Thought at the University of California, San Diego. He studies the causes and consequences of living standards, capabilities, poverty, inequality, mobility, employment, economic growth, social policy, taxation, public opinion, and politics in the United States and other wealthy, long-standing democracies. His books include The Good Society (thegoodsociety.net), Is Inequality the Problem? (2025), Would Democratic Socialism Be Better? (2022), Social Democratic Capitalism (2020), How Big Should Our Government Be? (2016), Social Democratic America (2014), Progress for the Poor (2011), Jobs with Equality (2008), Egalitarian Capitalism (2004), and In Search of National Economic Success (1995). More information on his research and teaching is available at lanekenworthy.net.
Professor Berman: “The 2026 Midterms in Comparative Perspective: Shifting Support for Trumpism and the Issues Reshaping the Electoral Landscape”
The presentation will focus on the issues dominating the midterm elections and the reasons why support for Trump and Trumpist candidates has been shifting. It will also briefly connect these developments to comparative cases, possibly including the April elections in Hungary.
Sheri Berman is a professor of Political Science at Barnard College, Columbia University. Her research interests include European history and politics; the development of democracy; populism and fascism; and the history of the left. She has written about these topics for a wide variety of scholarly and non-scholarly publications, including the New York Times, The Washington Post, Foreign Policy, Foreign Affairs, and VOX. She currently serves on the boards of the Journal of Democracy and Political Science Quarterly. Her last book was Democracy and Dictatorship in Europe: From the Ancien Regime to the Present Day (Oxford University Press 2019). Her most recent book, The Political Consequences of Economic Ideas: Neoliberalism, the Left, and the Fate of Democracy is forthcoming from Oxford University Press.
Professor Kazin: “Explaining the Socialist Revival in the US”
Professor Michael Kazin will examine the roots of the contemporary socialist resurgence in the United States, tracing them back to the anti-globalization protests of the late 1990s and the Great Recession of 2008–2009, which helped create the conditions that encouraged Bernie Sanders to run in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries. Professor Kazin will then assess the achievements of contemporary socialists, particularly those affiliated with the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), while also considering the limits of their political appeal and constituency.
Michael Kazin is a Professor in the Department of History, Georgetown University. He is an expert in US politics and social movements, 19th and 20th centuries. His most recent book is What It Took to Win: A History of the Democratic Party (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2022) which was named an Editor’s Choice by the NY Times Book Review and one of the best ten books published on US history in 2022 by Kirkus Reviews. His previous book War Against War: The American Fight for Peace, 1914-1918 (Simon and Schuster, 2017) was also named an Editor’s Choice by the New York Times Book Review and was awarded the Elise M. Boulding Prize for the best book in peace history by the Peace History Society. His previous books include American Dreamers: How the Left Changed a Nation (Knopf, 2011), which was named a Best Book of 2011 by The New Republic, Newsweek/Daily Beast, and The Progressive. Kazin is emeritus co-editor of “Dissent,” a leading magazine of the American left since 1954.
Professor McCoy: “Democratic Resilience Amid Pernicious Political Polarization”
Professor Jennifer McCoy will examine how Americans are responding to extreme political polarization and contentious midterm elections. She will also consider how polarization may evolve after the midterms under different electoral outcomes.
Jennifer McCoy is Regent’s Professor Emerita of Political Science at Georgia State University and Nonresident Scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, as well as Senior Fellow at Cornell University’s Center on Democracy and a Research Affiliate at CEU’s Democracy Institute in Budapest. She was named a 2024 Andrew Carnegie Fellow, one of 28 scholars nationwide who explore political polarization as well as what might help tackle division and strengthen American democracy. A specialist on democratic erosion, recovery, and renewal; polarization and depolarization; mediation and conflict prevention; election processes and election observation; and Latin American politics, Professor McCoy has authored or edited six books and dozens of articles. Her forthcoming book is How to Depolarize: Remaking Global Democracies in the 21st Century, with Murat Somer, (Princeton University Press, May 2027). McCoy has been a visiting scholar at Koc University in Istanbul, Collegio Carlo Alberto in Turin, Italy, and both the Democracy Institute and the Institute of Advanced Studies at Central European University in Budapest, Hungary. She was named a GSU Regent’s University Professor in 2023 (the highest honor bestowed by the University System of Georgia).
Professor Karch: “Beyond Washington, DC: American Federalism and the Midterms”
Professor Andrew Karch will examine the significance of the 2026 midterm elections beyond the national level. While most journalistic coverage focuses on partisan control of Congress, Professor Karch will emphasize that the stakes at the state level are also substantial. He will begin by reviewing recent trends in partisan control of state governments and discussing the state-level offices that will appear on the ballot. He will also highlight several significant ballot initiatives that voters in some states will consider.
The second part of Professor Karch’s presentation will examine the role of state governments at a moment of heightened partisan polarization. He will discuss how the Elections Clause of the US Constitution gives states a central role in administering elections, drawing congressional districts, and determining who is part of the American electorate. He will also examine how states have increasingly become sites of resistance, with state officials challenging national government policies and priorities. Professor Karch will argue that the significant impact of American federalism underscores the need to look beyond national-level results when assessing the midterm elections and their broader consequences.
Andrew Karch is a Professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Minnesota, where he has taught since 2010. His research centers on the political determinants of public policy choices in the contemporary United States, with a special focus on federalism and state politics. His most recent book, Responsive States: Federalism and American Public Policy, is co-authored with Shanna Rose of Claremont McKenna College and was published by Cambridge University Press in 2019. His previous book, Early Start: Preschool Politics in the United States (University of Michigan Press), was named a Choice Outstanding Academic Title for 2013. He is also the author of Democratic Laboratories: Policy Diffusion among the American States (University of Michigan Press, 2007). He is currently serving on the editorial boards of State Politics & Policy Quarterly, Policy Studies Journal, and Publius: The Journal of Federalism. He is also a fellow of the Center for the Study of Federalism, and he previously served two terms as Chair of the Executive Council of the Federalism and Intergovernmental Relations Section of the APSA.
Please cite as: ECPS Staff. (2026). “Demographic Populism: Demography as a Political Battleground.” European Center for Populism Studies (ECPS). October 2, 2026. https://doi.org/10.55271/rp00155
The ECPS Panel on Demographic Populism, titled “Demography as a Political Battleground: Migration, Family, Race, Religion, and Radical-Right Populism” examined how demographic change becomes politically meaningful when transformed into narratives of threat, survival, and belonging. Bringing together contributors to the book titled The Radical Right and Demographic Populism, the discussion showed how migration, fertility, abortion, gender, religion, race, and family are increasingly connected through struggles over who constitutes “the people,” who reproduces them, and whose future is imagined as endangered. Across cases from Europe, Latin America, the United States, and Russia, panelists explored the weaponization of demographic data, the role of emotion and transnational networks, and the effects of demographic narratives on party competition, public policy, and social boundaries. The panel underscored that demographic populism is ultimately less about population numbers than about their political interpretation.
Reported by ECPS Staff
Demographic change is often treated as a background condition of political life: a measurable shift in fertility, migration, age structure, religious composition, or family formation. Yet the ECPS Panel on Demographic Populism titled “Demography as a Political Battleground: Migration, Family, Race, Religion, and Radical-Right Populism”, held online on September 30, 2026, demonstrated that demography becomes politically consequential only when such changes are interpreted, narrated, and connected to broader struggles over identity, belonging, reproduction, and collective survival.
Bringing together contributors to the book The Radical Right and Demographic Populism, the discussion examined how demographic developments are transformed from social facts into political threats, how apparently separate issues become articulated within a common ideological framework, and what happens when these narratives gain electoral, institutional, or transnational traction. The panel was expertly moderated by Dr. Klaudia Koxha, Postdoctoral Fellow at the University of Lausanne, whose comparative framing and carefully structured interventions consistently connected the speakers’ cases while drawing out the conceptual links among demographic change, populism, political competition, and belonging.
At the center of the discussion was the concept of demographic populism. Rather than reducing radical-right politics to opposition to immigration or cultural change, the panel explored a broader logic in which “the people” are imagined as a population whose continuity is endangered. In this framework, migration, declining fertility, abortion, LGBTQ+ rights, changing gender norms, religion, race, and family policy can be linked through a common question: who constitutes the legitimate people, who reproduces them, and which groups or institutions are portrayed as threatening their future? Professor Oscar Mazzoleni emphasized that this perspective shifts attention from sovereignty and prosperity toward survival and reproduction, while Associate Professor Alberta Giorgi highlighted the active weaponization of demographic change through fear, discursive articulation, and claims to scientific or cultural authority.
The comparative breadth of the panel revealed that this political logic takes markedly different forms across national and regional contexts. Professor Reinhard Heinisch showed how, in Austria, demographic categories become cultural and civilizational categories through party competition and the construction of Muslims as a threat to national continuity. Professor Carlos de la Torre demonstrated that in Latin America demographic politics cannot be understood primarily through migration, since race, gender, sexuality, mestizaje, and the politics of the family have long been central to populist constructions of “the people.” Professor Carol Mason, meanwhile, traced how anti-abortion movements in the United States and post-Soviet Russia have mobilized the “unborn” as a collective symbol of national and racial futures, showing how demographic anxieties circulate through transnational networks and religious-political alliances.
Across these cases, a central conclusion emerged: demographic populism is not simply about numbers. It is about the political interpretation of numbers and the selective construction of demographic realities. Population statistics, fertility rates, migration flows, and family structures acquire political meaning when they are woven into narratives of decline, replacement, dispossession, or moral disorder. Such narratives may then reshape party competition, public policy, institutional agendas, social alliances, and even definitions of citizenship and belonging. The panel therefore situated demographic populism not as a marginal subfield of radical-right politics, but as a potentially powerful framework for understanding how contemporary struggles over nation, religion, race, gender, and reproduction are increasingly fused into competing visions of the future of “the people.”
Dr. Koxha: Demographic Populism Connects Migration, Reproduction, Religion, Race, and the Politics of Belonging
In her opening remarks, Dr. Klaudia Koxha, Postdoctoral Researcher at the University of Lausanne, introduced the ECPS Panel on Demographic Populism by situating the discussion within the recently published volume The Radical Right and Demographic Populism, which she co-edited with Professor Oscar Mazzoleni and which appeared with Manchester University Press in July 2026.
Rather than presenting the volume as a conventional sequence of chapter summaries, Dr. Koxha explained that the panel was deliberately organized around comparative questions cutting across the book’s diverse cases. This approach reflected one of the volume’s central analytical premises: issues such as migration, fertility, abortion, gender, LGBTQ+ rights, religion, race, and family are frequently discussed as separate domains, yet within radical-right politics they often become interconnected through a broader struggle over population, belonging, and collective continuity. The key questions therefore concern who constitutes “the people,” who reproduces that community, how its composition is understood to be changing, and which actors or developments are represented as threats to its future.
Dr. Koxha emphasized that the concept of demographic populism seeks to move beyond treating demographic developments as objective trends that automatically generate political consequences. Declining fertility, increased migration, changing religious composition, or evolving understandings of gender and family do not in themselves become political crises. What matters analytically is the political work through which such developments are interpreted, connected, dramatized, and transformed into narratives of demographic anxiety and collective threat.
She then introduced the panelists and highlighted the comparative breadth of their contributions. Professor Oscar Mazzoleni examines Fratelli d’Italia and the adaptation of demographic fears and “great replacement” narratives as the party moves from the margins into government. Professor Alberta Giorgi analyzes the online circulation and normalization of replacement narratives in Italy and France, particularly the legitimizing role of statistics, science, and demographic expertise. Professor Carol Mason focuses on transnational anti-abortion mobilization connecting the United States and Russia, showing how reproductive anxieties intersect with gender and broader radical-right projects. Professor Carlos de la Torre contributes a historical Latin American perspective on the incorporation of race, gender, sexuality, and family into different populist waves. Professor Reinhard Heinisch examines the Austrian Freedom Party’s shift from anti-clericalism toward cultural Christianity in constructing Muslims and immigration as questions of national and demographic belonging.
Dr. Koxha concluded by inviting Professor Mazzoleni to elaborate on why these diverse political struggles can productively be understood through the common lens of demographic populism and what this concept contributes to both theoretical and empirical debates.
Prof. Mazzoleni: Demographic Populism Reframes the Politics of “the People” Around Survival, Reproduction, and Belonging
Professor Oscar Mazzoleni framed demographic populism as a form of populist politics in which the central concern is not only the sovereignty or prosperity of “the people,” but their perceived survival and reproduction. While populist discourse often identifies enemies who allegedly undermine popular power or material well-being, demographic populism casts certain actors and social changes as threats to the continued existence of the people understood through national, racial, or religious belonging.
Within this framework, issues such as LGBTQ+ rights, homosexuality, abortion, and changing family structures can be represented as challenges to biological reproduction. The traditional family therefore occupies a central position, whether imagined as Christian, white, or nationally defined. It becomes not merely a cultural institution but a demographic and political pillar through which the continuity of the people is supposedly secured.
Professor Mazzoleni stressed that these claims vary across contexts and actors and should be examined through both demand-side and supply-side dynamics. A key contribution of the concept is to challenge the tendency to treat religion, race, immigration, sexuality, and family as separate cultural issues. Instead, demographic populism connects them through a common logic of population, reproduction, and belonging. From this perspective, radical-right opposition to multiculturalism, cosmopolitanism, and changing gender norms may form part of a broader political project centered on defending the traditional family and preserving an imagined national, religious, or racial community against perceived demographic transformation.
Dr. Koxha noted that Prof. Mazzoleni’s intervention provided the conceptual starting point needed to move the discussion forward. She then shifted the panel from the concept to the cases, asking how demographic change becomes political in the first place. Dr. Koxha stressed the premise that demographic change does not automatically become a political crisis. She pointed specifically to declining fertility, migration, changing religious composition, and changing family structures, and asked what has to happen for such developments to be transformed into political threats. She also asked what the individual cases examined by the panelists reveal about this process. Dr. Koxha then invited Professor Alberta Giorgi to respond first, giving her the floor.
Assoc. Prof. Giorgi: Demographic Change Becomes Political Through Weaponization and Cultural Resonance
Alberta Giorgi is an Associate Professor in Sociology of Culture and Communication at the University of Bergamo.
Associate Professor Alberta Giorgi argued that demographic shifts do not constitute crises in themselves. Rather, they become politically consequential when political actors actively transform them into threats. Drawing on the comparative cases she analyzed, Professor Giorgi identified the active weaponization of demography as a first crucial step. This involves political actors reframing demographic developments through a politics of fear and translating policy challenges into apocalyptic scenarios. Demography therefore becomes politically charged when it is deliberately presented as a source of danger.
A second element concerns discursive articulation. Professor Giorgi emphasized that different narratives must be brought together and connected in ways that make demographic change meaningful within a broader political frame. For such narratives to be effective, however, they must also achieve cultural resonance. She explained that this cultural resonance can be constructed in different ways. In the cases she examined, it is built partly through references to science and figures of authority, but also through longer-term processes of cultural change. These processes gradually reshape what can be said publicly and how it can be said.
Professor Giorgi described this as a long-term metapolitical project. Through such processes, demographic developments are progressively transformed into perceived demographic threats. She summarized the mechanism in two central dynamics: the active weaponization of demography and the transformation of the cultural boundaries of what can legitimately be articulated in public discourse.
Dr. Koxha highlighted one point in particular from Professor Giorgi’s intervention: the importance of discursive articulation. Dr. Koxha emphasized that demographic developments have to be interpreted, narrated, and given political meaning before they can function as political threats. Building on this point, she shifted the discussion to Professor Reinhard Heinisch and the Austrian case. She noted that, in Austria, demographic change intersects particularly strongly with religion and immigration. Dr. Koxha therefore asked how the process of transforming demographic change into a political threat operates in this specific national context.
Prof. Heinisch: Demographic Change Becomes Political When It Is Reframed as a Civilizational Threat
Professor Reinhard Heinisch strongly endorsed the preceding argument that demographic change is not inherently political. Drawing on the Austrian case, he argued that it becomes politicized when demographic categories are transformed into cultural and civilizational categories. Professor Heinisch stressed that this process does not follow automatically from immigration numbers. Austria experienced a significant increase in its Muslim population, yet politicization did not coincide directly with that demographic change. Instead, there was a lag. The issue became politically salient when the radical-right Freedom Party (FPÖ) chose to make it a central theme of party competition and when the Conservative Party subsequently decided to compete on similar terrain.
He noted that earlier opportunities to politicize the growth of the Muslim population had existed but were not taken up. Politicization therefore depended on specific circumstances of party competition and particular political actors. Professor Heinisch explained that demographic change is then reframed as a zero-sum process. An increase in immigrants or Muslims is translated into identity markers, which are subsequently presented as threatening the native population. Populism enters through the construction of a people portrayed as endangered, losing sovereignty, and facing collective decline.
This produces a symbolic distinction between native and non-native Austrians, or between the “real people” and those depicted as not fully belonging. In this way, demographic change is reinterpreted as a threat to the civilization of the native population. Professor Heinisch therefore emphasized the strongly discursive character of this radical-right reframing process.
Dr. Koxha highlighted the recurring themes emerging from the discussion, particularly the role of political parties and party competition in determining when and how demographic issues become politically mobilized. She noted that the Austrian case showed why a topic that had previously remained politically marginal could later become salient under specific competitive conditions. Dr. Koxha also emphasized that this process involved not only the framing and legitimation of demographic fears, but also the construction of religious and cultural difference in connection with migration and immigrants from particular backgrounds.
She then turned to Professor Carlos de la Torre, explaining that his chapter offered an opportunity to complicate the discussion further. Unlike the European cases considered so far, mass migration is not a central organizing political issue in the Latin American cases he examines. Dr. Koxha therefore posed a comparative question: if immigration is not performing the same political function in these contexts, what other processes transform demographic questions into political questions?
Prof. de la Torre: Latin America Shows That Demographic Politics Can Center on Race and Gender Without Mass Migration
Professor Carlos de la Torre situated the Latin American experience within the longer history of populism in the region. He noted that while Latin America has experienced populism in government and as a regime form since the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s, as well as earlier neoliberal forms of right-wing populism, the newer radical-right populism associated with figures such as Jair Bolsonaro represents a more recent development.
Professor de la Torre explained that, rather than applying categories developed primarily for European cases, his chapter compares contemporary radical-right constructions of race and gender with the ways these issues were articulated in earlier Latin American populist experiences. His central finding is that race, gender, and sexuality have long been politicized in the region, but that the forms and meanings of this politicization have changed considerably over time.
To illustrate this, he turned first to Peronism in Argentina during the 1940s and 1950s. Argentina had historically imagined itself as a predominantly white and European nation. Under Perón, however, race was politicized in a more inclusionary manner, with greater recognition of Indigenous legacies and of a national identity rooted in racial and ethnic mixing. Peronist supporters themselves were often described through racialized labels such as “Black Peronists” or “Cabecitas Negras,” even when they were not Black but Indigenous, Mestizo, or perceived as non-white.
Professor de la Torre emphasized, however, that this model of racial mixing was itself complex because it could obscure the distinct experiences and identities of Indigenous and Black populations. He contrasted this earlier inclusionary construction with contemporary radical-right politics in Brazil. Jair Bolsonaro, he argued, invoked the idea of Brazil as a “racial democracy” to question demands for racial equality by Afro-Brazilians. In this formulation, the very claim that racial mixing has eliminated racial divisions can be used to deny the need for group-based recognition and redistribution.
For Professor de la Torre, the key analytical point is therefore that demographic politics in Latin America cannot be reduced to migration. Race itself has been repeatedly reconstructed and politicized in different ways, shifting from more inclusionary populist narratives of racial mixing toward more exclusionary uses of the myths of racial democracy and mestizaje.
Dr. Koxha noted that questions of race, gender, and sexuality also become sites through which “the people” are constructed and defended, but that this occurs in ways that differ significantly from the European cases discussed earlier. Dr. Koxha highlighted in particular Professor de la Torre’s reference to more inclusionary forms of populist construction in Latin America. She then connected the discussion of race to the question of reproduction itself.
Turning to Professor Carol Mason, Dr. Koxha shifted the focus toward transnational anti-abortion mobilization. She noted that Mason’s chapter addresses questions of who is considered wanted or unwanted in reproductive terms and asked how narratives of demographic change become politically meaningful within this transnational context. Her question therefore introduced a new dimension to the discussion: how demographic anxieties are shaped and mobilized not only within national political settings, but also through transnational linkages in anti-abortion activism.
Prof. Mason: Anti-Abortion Politics Turns Demographic Anxiety into a Struggle Over the Future of “the People”
Carol Mason is Otis A. Singletary Chair in the Humanities and Professor at University of Kentucky, US.
Professor Carol Mason situated contemporary anti-abortion politics within a much longer history of demographic anxiety in the United States. She argued that fears of demographic decline have shaped anti-abortion mobilization for decades and have repeatedly intersected with different currents of the radical right.
Professor Mason traced these anxieties back at least to the 1970s, pointing to anti-abortion figures such as Father Paul Marx, founder of Human Life International. She emphasized that demographic fear within anti-abortion activism has long had an international dimension. In the United States, however, the roots extend even further, to early twentieth-century nativist fears of “race suicide,” which were often framed around the claim that white women were not having enough children at a time of increased immigration.
She noted that such anxieties are frequently expressed through discussions of birth rates, especially declining birth rates among white women. Yet this framing, she stressed, can be misleading if mortality rates are ignored. In a country marked by substantial health disparities, understanding demographic change also requires attention to maternal mortality as well as fertility.
Professor Mason then turned to the role of conservative media in making demographic anxieties emotionally resonant. She highlighted the 2008 film Demographic Winter as a recent articulation of these fears, linking it to an earlier anti-abortion film, Whatever Happened to the Human Race?, featuring Christian intellectual Francis Schaeffer and physician C. Everett Koop. Both films, she observed, combined supposed expert authority with highly emotional visual techniques.
A particularly striking device involved images of children disappearing from otherwise idyllic settings. In one case, a playground swing remains in motion after the child has vanished; in another, children visually dissolve from the frame. For Professor Mason, these images symbolically represent fears that white progeny are being erased.
Her broader argument was that anti-abortion rhetoric helps create a bridge to right-wing populism by presenting the unborn not simply as individual lives, but as a collective embodiment of the future of “the people.” Demographic change can then be framed as imperiling that collective future. In this way, reproduction becomes connected to racialized anxieties, population decline, and broader radical-right narratives about who belongs, who should reproduce, and whose future is imagined as being under threat.
Dr. Koxha reflected on Professor Mason’s discussion by highlighting the concept of the “unborn” as particularly revealing. She noted that, in Mason’s account, the unborn can represent contrasting possible futures: both the baby that is desired and the one that is not. In this sense, Dr. Koxha suggested, the unborn can operate as a kind of floating signifier within demographic and political narratives.
She also emphasized Mason’s distinction between declining birth rates and the omission of mortality rates. For Dr. Koxha, this illustrated how political actors and transnational networks construct selective narratives by foregrounding one part of a demographic story while leaving other dimensions aside. She connected this process to a broader tendency within populism, and radical-right populism in particular, to simplify more complex social phenomena.
Dr. Koxha then turned back to Professor Oscar Mazzoleni and the case of Fratelli d’Italia. She highlighted how demographic anxieties, immigration, and replacement narratives converge within a party-political setting. Her question focused particularly on how demographic developments continue to be transformed into political threats when a party moves from the political margins into government while retaining a strong ideological legacy.
Prof. Mazzoleni: Governing Radical-Right Parties Balance Demographic Radicalization with Strategic Moderation
Professor Oscar Mazzoleni focused on the challenge radical-right parties face once they enter government and gain the capacity to implement policies related to natality, fertility, and demographic change. He argued that this governmental role is crucial for understanding both the impact of demographic populism and the ways demographic transformations continue to be politicized.
Professor Mazzoleni noted that radical-right actors frequently frame demographic change as a threat to the centrality of native, white, and often Christian populations. Yet the form and intensity of this politicization vary according to national context and political actors. In the Italian case, he highlighted the tension faced by a party that must govern while also maintaining a radical ideological identity.
This creates what he described as a form of calculated ambivalence. Political leaders may invoke fears associated with the “great replacement” while simultaneously distancing themselves from the conspiratorial implications of that narrative. In this way, demographic transformation can be presented as a factual or structural concern, while the more explicitly radical-right interpretation is denied or softened. The result is an ability to appear moderate in one register while continuing to mobilize radical themes in another.
Professor Mazzoleni emphasized that this strategy is particularly important in the context of major demographic transformations, including changing balances between younger and older generations. Such structural changes have direct implications for policymaking, but radical-right parties seek to reinterpret them politically in ways that maintain mobilization and ideological continuity.
The broader challenge, he argued, is one of political survival. Radical-right parties in government must remain connected to their core constituencies while also reaching wider audiences. They therefore have to manage what he described as “the two sides of the moon”: on one side, gaining respectability within the political establishment, including at the European level; on the other, preserving a radical identity through discourse and public policy. This tension, he suggested, is central to understanding how demographic populism operates once radical-right parties move from opposition into government.
Dr. Koxha closed the first round by emphasizing the role of political actors and movements in constructing and circulating demographic narratives. She highlighted two mechanisms that had emerged from the discussion: selective framing, whereby only part of a broader demographic story is foregrounded, and what Professor Oscar Mazzoleni described as “calculated ambivalence.”
Dr. Koxha stressed that demographic reality alone does not determine political salience. Returning to a point raised by Professor Heinisch, she noted that similar demographic conditions do not always become politicized in the same way. This, she suggested, raises a broader question about whether similar political narratives can gain traction under very different demographic circumstances.
She therefore underscored the distinction between demographic change itself and its political interpretation, noting that complex demographic developments are often simplified through political narration. With this distinction established, Dr. Koxha introduced the second round of the panel, shifting attention from how demographic developments become politicized to what connects these different political struggles. She then invited Professor Carlos de la Torre to begin.
Prof. de la Torre: Radical-Right Populism Mobilizes Nostalgia to Defend Family, Hierarchy, and an Idealized Social Order
Carlos de la Torre is a Professor at the Centre for Latin American Studies, University of Florida.
Professor Carlos de la Torre argued that what connects many of the political struggles examined across the Americas is a nostalgia for an idealized past. Drawing on both Latin American and United States cases, he described this imagined past as one in which religion occupied a stronger social position, gender roles were clearly defined, and racial and social hierarchies were more firmly established.
Professor de la Torre emphasized that this nostalgia centers on a hierarchical vision of society. Men and women are assigned traditional roles, while racial and other minorities are expected to remain within clearly defined social boundaries. In this sense, the different political struggles are linked by an effort to restore or defend a social order perceived as having been destabilized.
Turning to gender, he identified the defense of the traditional heterosexual patriarchal family as a particularly important source of mobilization. He argued that radical-right actors have constructed “gender ideology” as a common enemy capable of bringing together opposition to sex education in schools, same-sex marriage, adoption by gay and lesbian couples, and non-binary gender identities. These issues are framed as components of a single project allegedly threatening the nuclear family. Professor de la Torre also highlighted the role of Catholic intellectuals and other conservative thinkers in developing and circulating this framework.
On race, he noted that Latin American radical-right narratives often draw on claims that the region possesses its own distinctive racial model, expressed through ideas such as mestizaje and racial democracy. Within this framing, racism is either denied or attributed to activists accused of importing foreign ideologies that divide society. For Professor de la Torre, these narratives converge around a common political logic: opposition to what are presented as alien ideas that divide populations along racial, gender, and sexual lines, combined with the defense of family, hierarchy, and an idealized social past.
Dr. Koxha highlighted how Professor de la Torre’s case showed that defining “the people” also involves ideas about legitimate families, gender relations, and racial identities. She then returned to the European context, inviting Professor Alberta Giorgi to examine how immigration and reproduction become linked through replacement narratives, and how these connections construct the image of a threatened people.
Assoc. Prof. Giorgi: Replacement Narratives Link External Migration and Internal Reproductive Threats
Associate Professor Alberta Giorgi examined how replacement narratives connect immigration, reproduction, gender, and sexuality within a broader demographic framework. Drawing on a comparison between Italy and France, she noted that the specific discourse varies across the two cases, but that the underlying logic of replacement remains similar.
Professor Giorgi explained that society is framed through a nativist perspective in which migration is constructed as an external demographic threat. Migrants are portrayed as having supposedly higher birth rates and, because they are positioned as not fully belonging, their reproduction is represented as contributing to the displacement of the native population.
She added that migrants can also be constructed as a sexual threat. This may involve fears of seduction or sexual relations with members of the native population, introducing an explicitly racialized dimension into the narrative.
Alongside this external threat, Professor Giorgi identified an internal one. LGBTQI+ rights, abortion rights, and other gender-related issues are presented as forces that allegedly weaken the reproductive capacity of society. In replacement narratives, these internal and external threats are therefore connected through a shared concern with reproduction.
Professor Giorgi also highlighted an important shift in the interpretation of demographic data. In the Italian case in particular, figures referring to the population living in Italy may be reinterpreted as if they referred only to Italians. This transformation of meaning allows demographic statistics themselves to be reframed through a nativist lens.
She emphasized that these different strands are brought together through a broader discursive articulation linking external and internal threats to reproduction. Professor Giorgi pointed to the struggle against so-called “gender ideology” as another important mechanism connecting these issues. She traced the origins of the concept to the Vatican and the Catholic Church before its subsequent adoption by political actors. In this sense, the contemporary discourse has a broader genealogy and infrastructure through which ideas about migration, sexuality, reproduction, and demographic decline become interconnected within a common political framework.
Dr. Koxha highlighted the striking connection between who enters a population and who reproduces it from within, linking this dynamic to the broader theme of demographic replacement running throughout the volume. She then turned to Professor Oscar Mazzoleni and Fratelli d’Italia, emphasizing the party’s tension between governing responsibility and its radical-right ideological legacy. Dr. Koxha asked who constitutes “the people” at the center of its narrative and in whose name demographic anxieties are articulated.
Prof. Mazzoleni: Defending the “True People” Against Demographic Replacement
Professor Oscar Mazzoleni identified the people at the center of Fratelli d’Italia’s demographic narrative as the Italian nation imagined in explicitly native terms. The perceived threat of “great replacement,” he explained, is closely connected to immigration and to wider anxieties about Italy’s “demographic winter” and population decline.
Within this framing, the population understood to be at risk is composed primarily of white, Italian, and Christian citizens. The perceived demographic threat is associated particularly with Islam and immigration from Africa. Professor Mazzoleni presented this as part of a broader European pattern in which demographic transformation is politicized through the defense of a native or “true” people. He linked this construction to the familiar radical-right triad of family, God, and nation, through which demographic concerns are incorporated into a broader ideological project of protecting national continuity and belonging.
Professor Mazzoleni also introduced a historical dimension, arguing that contemporary scholarship should look more systematically beyond the present. He noted that similar arguments concerning population, national survival, family, and demographic threat were already prominent in the early twentieth century and were strongly connected with fascist movements. For the Italian case especially, he stressed that understanding contemporary demographic populism therefore also requires attention to these historical continuities.
Dr. Koxha highlighted Professor Mazzoleni’s historical point, stressing that demographic narratives are not entirely new but can recirculate across different periods. She linked this to the earlier question of how political actors selectively use demographic conditions to construct narratives that do not necessarily capture the full complexity of reality.
Dr. Koxha also returned to Professor Alberta Giorgi’s observation about demographic data, emphasizing how statistics about populations can be transformed into claims about specific national communities such as Italians. This showed, she argued, that “the people” are not merely a numerical population but are culturally and normatively defined. She then turned to Professor Reinhard Heinisch, asking how religious and national belonging intersect in Austria, particularly despite the country’s increasing secularization.
Prof. Heinisch: Demographic Populism Defines the Boundaries and Reproduction of “the People”
Professor Reinhard Heinisch is a leading expert on Austrian politics from the University of Salzburg.
Professor Reinhard Heinisch began by reinforcing Professor de la Torre’s emphasis on nostalgia. Referring to a recent Freedom Party (FPÖ) poster proclaiming “the past, just better,” he argued that radical-right politics often constructs an idealized past designed to generate emotional aspiration. He then identified three components linking the different issues discussed in the volume. First, they all concern the boundaries and reproduction of “the people.” Immigration raises questions about who enters the community, while family, fertility, gender, and sexuality concern how the community reproduces itself and preserves continuity.
Second, Professor Heinisch noted that classical populism revolves around an antagonism between “the people” and “the elite.” In the cases examined in the volume, however, a third actor is also present: a constructed cultural “other” portrayed as an enemy or threat.
Third, these dynamics allow demographic populism to extend across multiple political domains. Immigration determines who enters; religion defines cultural belonging; family and fertility shape questions of reproduction; and gender and sexuality become linked to cultural continuity, moral order, and the future.
The Austrian case, Professor Heinisch argued, demonstrates particularly clearly that “the people” cannot simply be equated with citizens. It is a more complex category produced at the intersection of demographic, cultural, religious, and moral boundaries.
He concluded that the radical right’s ability to dominate demographic debates enables it to intervene across all these areas simultaneously. This creates a significant challenge for other political parties, which often struggle to compete on terrain already strongly shaped by radical-right narratives.
Dr. Koxha reflected on Professor Heinisch’s intervention by emphasizing the complexity of belonging across race, religion, and culture. She noted that an immigrant or person of color who is Christian may still be understood as culturally belonging, while a white Muslim may occupy a more ambiguous position. For Dr. Koxha, this showed how racial and religious identities are filtered through broader cultural definitions of belonging. She then extended the discussion to the transnational politics of reproduction, inviting Professor Carol Mason to explain the role of religion, particularly Christianity, in connecting these issues within a common political struggle and in defining the people claimed through that process.
Prof. Mason: The “Unborn” as a Collective Future Linking Anti-Abortion Politics, Racial Anxiety, and Christian Nationalism
Professor Carol Mason focused on the symbolic role of the “unborn” as a representation of “the people” and their imagined future. Rather than treating the unborn solely as an individual figure within anti-abortion rhetoric, she argued that different sectors of the right have deployed it collectively, enabling demographic fears to be articulated through both religious and secular registers.
To illustrate this dynamic in the United States, Professor Mason turned to Randall Terry, founder of the militant anti-abortion organization Operation Rescue in the 1980s. The organization became known for direct-action tactics at reproductive healthcare clinics, including blockading entrances, attempting to dissuade patients from entering, and using forms of physical noncompliance when confronted by police. Although such tactics resembled methods associated with the American civil rights movement, Terry explicitly distanced Operation Rescue from that tradition.
Professor Mason highlighted instead the religious language through which Terry justified such activism. He presented the United States as facing imminent divine punishment because of abortion and described activists as acting on behalf of “our children and their futures.” For Mason, this formulation reveals how the unborn become more than individual fetuses: they operate as a collective symbol of the future of “the people.”
She then drew attention to the striking proximity between this rhetoric and the white-power slogan known as the “14 Words,” written by David Lane during roughly the same period, which similarly invokes securing a future for white children. Professor Mason used this parallel to demonstrate how language concerning children, futurity, reproduction, and collective survival can travel across different sectors of right-wing politics.
She then extended the analysis beyond the United States, arguing that the use of the unborn as a collective representation of the future of a nation or race was exported into post-Soviet Russia. Drawing on an example discussed by Kristina Stoeckl, Professor Mason described a Russian anti-abortion reinterpretation of the socialist slogan “Proletarians of the world, unite!” Through a purported derivation of proletariat from the Latin prolis, meaning offspring, the slogan was recast as if it contained an originally anti-abortion message. This reinterpretation was accompanied by the claim that abortion had been legalized in the Soviet Union by Jewish doctors.
Professor Mason characterized this as an anti-Semitic and revisionist reworking of political language. In her account, it illustrates how the unborn can be mobilized as imagined future offspring in the construction of Christian-national populism, connecting reproduction, religion, nationalism, and demographic survival across transnational political contexts.
Dr. Koxha observed that the discussion had demonstrated how extensively the concept of “the people” operates across the cases. It may refer to a nation, a cultural, racialized, religious, or civilizational community, or even to a population imagined through its future reproduction. Despite these different manifestations, she identified a common political logic: the construction of an “us” and a “them,” accompanied by a sense of incompatibility and competing imagined futures.
Dr. Koxha then introduced the panel’s third round, shifting attention from the construction of demographic threats to their consequences once such narratives gain political traction. She asked how demographic populism shapes political mobilization, alliances, public debate, ideas of rights and belonging, and potentially institutions and policy. She invited Professor Oscar Mazzoleni to begin by reflecting on what his case reveals about these broader political consequences.
Prof. Mazzoleni: Radical-Right Parties Turn Demographic Policy Constraints into Fuel for Permanent Campaigning
Oscar Mazzoleni is a Professor in Political Science and Political Sociology at the University of Lausanne.
Professor Oscar Mazzoleni argued that one of the most important next steps in the study of demographic populism is to move beyond discourse, framing, and political communication toward a more systematic examination of public policy. He explained that the volume opens a broader research agenda by bringing together different national contexts, methodological approaches, and perspectives from both the supply and demand sides of politics. However, he stressed that understanding demographic populism also requires closer attention to whether radical-right parties, leaders, and social movements are actually able to translate demographic narratives into concrete policy.
Professor Mazzoleni underlined that there is no automatic connection between rhetoric and implementation. Political parties may emphasize natality, fertility, family, immigration, and demographic decline in their discourse, but the crucial question is whether they can transform these priorities into effective policy instruments.
He referred to Hungary under Viktor Orbán as an instructive case in which governments have attempted to implement policies explicitly linked to family support and demographic concerns. He also returned to the Italian case, emphasizing the challenge of moving from rhetorical commitments to reforms capable of addressing what radical-right actors describe as the “demographic winter.” This may involve natality policies, financial support for families, and measures intended to place the family more centrally within public policy, alongside restrictive approaches to immigration.
Professor Mazzoleni stressed that implementation itself can become politically significant when such policies fail to produce the expected results or encounter institutional and structural constraints. In these circumstances, radical-right actors may explain the difficulties by identifying external enemies or obstacles, including European institutions, political competitors, or other actors portrayed as preventing them from carrying out their agenda.
In this sense, policy limitations can themselves be incorporated into populist discourse. The inability to fully implement demographic policies may be reframed as evidence that hostile forces are obstructing the will of the people. Professor Mazzoleni concluded that this dynamic contributes to a form of permanent campaigning. Even when radical-right parties hold significant governmental power, they can continue to mobilize supporters by presenting themselves as engaged in an ongoing struggle against forces allegedly undermining their demographic and family-oriented political project.
Dr. Koxha highlighted Professor Mazzoleni’s point that the volume aims to open a broader research agenda. She noted that governing creates opportunities to pursue demographic policies but also exposes parties to institutional constraints, particularly within the European Union. Dr. Koxha then shifted the focus beyond parties in government or opposition, asking what happens when political actors operate through transnational networks and organizations. She invited Professor Carol Mason to examine the political consequences of successfully connecting and circulating demographic narratives across borders.
Prof. Mason: Anti-Abortion Networks Turn Demographic Anxiety into Transnational Political Power
Professor Carol Mason argued that deploying the unborn as the imperiled future of the nation can contribute to major political transformations. In her chapter, she examines this dynamic through the shift from the Soviet Union to the post-Soviet clericalization of Russia, emphasizing the central role of abortion in that process.
Professor Mason noted that the Soviet Union had a complex history of abortion policy. It decriminalized abortion in 1920, later banned it, and then decriminalized it again in 1955. Unlike the 1973 legalization of abortion in the United States through Roe v. Wade, she argued, abortion in the Soviet context had become close to a universal experience for many women and was often treated as a practical necessity rather than primarily as an expression of individual reproductive choice. Debates over abortion policy were also repeatedly framed through demographic concerns.
Professor Mason stressed, however, that accounts focusing on Russian demographic debates often overlook the sustained involvement of the global anti-abortion movement, particularly support from the United States beginning in the 1990s. She identified the World Congress of Families (WCF) as a particularly important institutional vehicle in this process.
Founded in the mid-1990s through cooperation between American and Russian academics concerned with demographic change, the WCF developed recurring international conferences where different right-wing actors could establish connections. Over time, Professor Mason explained, these networks facilitated the circulation of shared ideologies, tactics, and resources linking Russian Orthodox actors with American Republicans, theocratic groups, and white supremacist currents.
She also noted that the WCF has operated beyond Europe and Russia, using populist and sometimes neocolonial language in campaigns against reproductive rights in African contexts. It became part of a broader international network encompassing overlapping ambitions associated with illiberal politics, theocratic governance, and hypercapitalism.
Professor Mason emphasized that the origins of this network should not be understood only through later anti-gender mobilization. Anti-abortion activism, she argued, was present from the outset. Citing Neil Datta’s work, she noted that leaders of national anti-abortion movements were among those who established Christian micro-parties and subsequently sought influence within mainstream center-right parties.
For Professor Mason, this history matters because opposition to abortion has functioned not only as a political objective but also as a mobilizing strategy. By presenting abortion as part of an apocalyptic demographic struggle over cultural survival, transnational anti-abortion networks have helped create political alliances and narratives that have benefited broader repressive right-wing movements.
Dr. Koxha noted that political traction does not necessarily mean electoral success alone. It can also involve building infrastructures, alliances, and repertoires through which ideas travel across movements and political arenas. She then invited Professor Reinhard Heinisch to explain what consequences follow when demographic and religious threat narratives gain traction in Austria and move from party politics into the institutional sphere.
Prof. Heinisch: Demographic Narratives Reshape Party Competition, Policy, and Belonging
Professor Reinhard Heinisch identified three principal consequences when demographic narratives gain political traction: they restructure party competition, transform public policy, and alter public perceptions.
First, he pointed to the Austrian party system, where immigration and Islam became increasingly salient political issues. The Conservative Party had previously regarded Austrian Muslims as potential allies against secularism and had maintained links with Muslim communities. Once the radical right successfully reframed Islam and immigration as demographic and cultural threats, however, conservatives faced pressure to adjust their own political messaging.
Second, Professor Heinisch emphasized the impact on public policy. He referred to debates surrounding headscarves, the teaching of Islam in schools and universities, and broader questions involving security and secularization. These examples demonstrated how demographic narratives can move beyond rhetoric and influence institutional and policy agendas.
Third, he highlighted changes in public perception. Drawing on Austrian survey data over roughly two decades, Professor Heinisch noted an increasing perception that Muslims are not fully compatible with the European way of life. He argued that these shifts parallel changes in public debate and can be traced across successive election cycles.
Professor Heinisch concluded that once demographic narratives become politically successful, their effects extend well beyond elections. They can reshape institutions, public discourse, policy priorities, and the social boundaries through which belonging is defined.
Prof. de la Torre: Demographic Enmity Enables New Religious and Cross-Class Coalitions
Professor Carlos de la Torre emphasized the political consequences of constructing groups as enemies of “the people,” the nation, or the family. He argued that such antagonistic narratives can produce alliances among actors who may previously have been divided or even hostile toward one another. In the Latin American context, he pointed in particular to the convergence of right-wing Catholics and Evangelicals. Religious discourse, he suggested, can provide a common framework through which these groups are brought together around the defense of the family and the nation against allegedly threatening forces.
Professor de la Torre also stressed the class dimension of this process. Historically, he noted, the political right has often struggled to secure the support of poorer sectors of society. However, when political conflict is reframed around the defense of the family, opposition to perceived cultural enemies, or protection of the nation, these issues can help construct a broader coalition that extends beyond traditional middle- and upper-class constituencies.
In this sense, demographic and moral narratives can facilitate the formation of multi-class political alliances. By presenting politics as a struggle against actors said to threaten family, nation, or social order, radical-right movements can transcend older divisions and incorporate poorer voters into coalitions organized around cultural and religious concerns rather than primarily economic ones.
Q&A Session
Dr. Valeria Reggi: The “Natural Family” as a Discursive Boundary of Belonging
Dr. Valeria Reggi (second from right) at the ECPS Civilizational Populism Conference at the University of Warsaw in May 2025. Photo: Muhammed Gemi.
During the Q&A session, Dr. Valeria Reggi drew attention to the role of “naturalness” in the political discourse of Fratelli d’Italia and the League. Speaking from the perspective of linguistics and discourse analysis, she argued that the idea of the “natural family” functions as an important way of defining the legitimate in-group.
Dr. Reggi noted that the traditional heterosexual family—composed of a man and a woman, potentially with children—is frequently represented as natural and therefore commonsensical. In this framing, political discourse constructs a contrast between what is presented as naturally belonging to the national community and what is implicitly positioned outside it.
She suggested that this language becomes particularly significant as radical-right parties seek to present themselves as more moderate and appeal to broader electorates. Rather than relying on explicitly racialized distinctions, political actors may use the language of naturalness as a more indirect or euphemistic way of defining legitimate belonging.
Dr. Reggi connected this discourse to an image of Italy as culturally Christian and predominantly white, while also questioning the stability of such racial categories. Drawing on her own experience of being classified as “white other” while studying in the United Kingdom, she emphasized the ambiguity of what “white” itself means.
Her intervention therefore centered on how categories of family, race, Christianity, and national belonging can be reconfigured through appeals to what is presented as “natural” in a particular place and moment. She invited the panelists to reflect further on how this discourse operates politically.
Prof. Giorgi: Naturalizing the Family and Recasting Radical-Right Claims as Common Sense
Professor Alberta Giorgi agreed with Valeria Reggi’s emphasis on the political significance of “naturalness.” She argued that the normalization of radical-right discourse is closely connected to the naturalization of the family and to presenting particular ideas as simple “common sense.”
In this process, the traditional family is framed as natural, while political claims surrounding it are recast as self-evident and socially normal. Professor Giorgi described this as part of a broader hegemonic strategy through which the boundaries of acceptable discourse are reshaped. She also noted that references to the “natural family” appear across other cases, including formulations associated with the Vatican.
Beatrice Bottura: Can Demographic Populism Extend into Welfare Policy and Redistribution?
During the Q&A session, Beatrice Bottura raised two questions concerning the broader policy implications of demographic populism. First, she connected the discussion to debates over deservingness in social policy, noting that welfare policies associated with right-wing populist parties frequently incorporate nativist and exclusionary principles.
She asked whether demographic populism could therefore be extended analytically beyond policies directly related to natality and reproduction to other areas of social policy, including redistribution. In particular, she invited reflections on cases where radical-right parties have governed, such as Fratelli d’Italia in Italy and the FPÖ in Austria, and whether demographic understandings of belonging influence decisions about who is considered entitled to welfare and state support.
Her second question concerned Germany. Bottura pointed to the relationship between migration and fertility, noting that the country’s total fertility rate ceased declining following a significant migration influx. She asked whether this case complicates radical-right demographic narratives, particularly where migration may counteract demographic decline, and whether such data can nevertheless be politically reframed even as an extreme-right party gains support.
Dr. Koxha: Demographic Populism Extends from Reproduction into Education, Mobility, and Deservingness
Dr. Klaudia Koxha Postdoctoral Fellow at the University of Lausanne.
Dr. Klaudia Koxha responded to Beatrice Bottura’s question by showing how demographic populism can extend beyond policies directly concerned with fertility and reproduction into other areas of social policy. Drawing on her own chapter in the volume, Dr. Koxha referred to her analysis of the youth factions of Austria’s FPÖ and the ways demographic narratives are adapted to a younger generation. She explained that these discourses construct the so-called native youth as increasingly disadvantaged within the education system.
According to the narratives she examined, education is portrayed as being negatively affected by immigration and by what radical-right actors describe as “gender ideology.” Immigrants are presented as supposedly incompatible with the existing educational environment and as contributing to a decline in educational standards, while gender-related changes are likewise framed as undermining the system.
Dr. Koxha emphasized that these concerns are then connected to the future labor-market position of native youth. The argument presented by these actors is that young natives are being prevented from acquiring the skills necessary for future economic success because of broader transformations within education.
What reconnects these claims to demographic populism, she argued, is the portrayal of native youth not only as future workers but as the future of the nation itself. Questions of education, labor-market advantage, and deservingness therefore become tied to demographic continuity.
She noted that similar dynamics can also appear in discussions of mobility. During the COVID-19 period, for instance, some narratives contrasted policies allegedly facilitating the movement of migrants or asylum seekers with restrictions experienced by native youth.
Dr. Koxha stressed that these issues may appear only indirectly related to reproduction. Yet they become connected through a broader chain of meaning centered on who is considered the deserving native population and who is imagined as carrying the nation into the future.
She concluded that demographic populism can therefore reach into education, mobility, and social advantage, expanding beyond fertility policy into wider struggles over resources, opportunity, and national belonging.
Prof. Heinisch: Demographic Populism Moves Beyond Welfare Exclusion Toward Narratives of National Survival
Professor Reinhard Heinisch distinguished between the exclusionary logic traditionally associated with radical-right social policy and the more far-reaching implications of demographic populism. He noted that radical-right parties in countries such as Austria, and historically Germany, have at times moved toward support for certain social policies, but primarily for the benefit of the native population. In this context, welfare exclusion is often justified through arguments about efficiency, limited resources, and the need to restrict benefits to those considered part of the national community.
Professor Heinisch argued, however, that demographic populism goes significantly further. Whereas welfare exclusion can be framed in terms of cost and resource allocation, demographic politics invokes questions of national survival and cultural replacement. This, he suggested, creates the basis for more extensive and potentially more radical political agendas.
He pointed in particular to the growing debate over “remigration” in Germany and Austria. In this context, he described a dynamic in which Identitarian actors and the radical right can operate in a kind of “tag team”: more extreme ideas may initially be articulated by Identitarian movements and subsequently taken up, adapted, or normalized by radical-right political actors.
Professor Heinisch also highlighted an important geographical paradox. In both Austria and Germany, some of the strongest radical-right support can be found in areas experiencing comparatively little demographic change or immigration. In Austria, for instance, such tendencies may be less pronounced in Vienna and stronger in provinces with lower levels of immigration.
For Professor Heinisch, this raises an unresolved causal question. It remains unclear whether radical-right parties become more radical in such areas because they are responding to already existing perceptions of decline and cultural loss, or whether political actors themselves actively produce and intensify these perceptions.
He framed this as a broader research problem concerning the relationship between demand and supply: do radical-right policies respond to pre-existing public attitudes, or do political actors generate the demand to which they later respond? Professor Heinisch concluded that this remains an open and important research agenda.
Prof. de la Torre: When Demographic Radicalization Pushes Populism Toward Post-Fascism
Professor Carlos de la Torre built on Professor Heinisch’s remarks by raising a more fundamental conceptual question. He argued that when demography is intensely politicized and charged with strong emotions, especially against the historical background of Nazi demographic politics, it becomes necessary to ask whether populism is moving toward a form of post-fascism.
Professor de la Torre applied this question to Donald Trump’s second presidency. While he regarded Trump’s earlier phase as populist up to the January 6 Capitol attack, he questioned whether this category remains sufficient amid intensified demographic politics and the use of coercive enforcement structures. His broader question was therefore whether radicalization around demographic issues eventually reaches a point at which the analytical framework of populism itself becomes inadequate.
Prof. Mazzoleni: Demographic Populism, Fascist Legacies, and the Politics of Reproductive Survival
Professor Oscar Mazzoleni responded by stressing that the relationship between populism and fascism is complex and should not be reduced to a simple equivalence. He returned instead to the question of how “the people” are defined and reproduced, asking who counts as the “good people” responsible for reproducing the nation. For Professor Mazzoleni, this remains recognizably populist because it is organized through a Manichean division between the legitimate people and forces portrayed as undermining them. These forces may include political elites, foreigners, and groups seen as threatening the nation, the family, and particularly the Christian family.
At the same time, he acknowledged that some of these components overlap with historical fascist politics. Fascism has itself sometimes been interpreted through populist categories, although Professor Mazzoleni stressed that the term carries a specifically anti-democratic historical meaning. The two traditions therefore should not be collapsed, even if some elements may be articulated together.
He identified demographic claims as one of the points of overlap. The issue concerns not only biological survival but also cultural survival. In many European radical-right narratives, fertility rates among native white Christian populations are contrasted with those of immigrant, particularly Muslim, populations. Professor Mazzoleni connected this directly to “great replacement” narratives. In this framing, immigration is presented not simply as the arrival of outsiders, but as a transformation in the demographic balance of the population. Higher fertility among immigrant communities is then portrayed as threatening the future reproduction of the native nation. He concluded that this connection between demographic reproduction, cultural continuity, and imagined national survival lies at the heart of the book’s broader concerns.
Dr. Andy Knott: Where Exactly Does Populism Enter the Analysis?
Dr. Andy Knott responded to the preceding discussion by questioning how explicitly populism itself had featured in the panel’s analysis. Reflecting on the relationship between fascism and populism, he noted that European scholars have historically had a somewhat different relationship with both the phenomenon and the terminology of populism than scholars working in the Americas.
Dr. Knott pointed to the classic volume edited by Ghita Ionescu and Ernest Gellner, observing that it did not even include a chapter on Western Europe. For him, this reflected the limited use of “populism” as a political signifier in the European context at that time.
While praising the richness of the panel’s analysis, he offered a provocation: much of the discussion, in his view, had centered on civilizationism, nativism, and nationalism, while the classic populist opposition between “the people” and “the establishment” had appeared less prominently. His question therefore challenged the panel to clarify more precisely where populism enters the framework and how demographic populism differs analytically from adjacent radical-right ideologies.
Prof. Mason: Populist Participation, Citizen Enforcement, and “Social Totalitarianism”
Professor Carol Mason returned to the question of how “the people” themselves may become active participants in coercive political projects. Drawing on Chip Berlet and Matthew Lyons’ Right-Wing Populism in America, she highlighted a distinction between the fascism associated with the industrial-era nation-state and a more diffuse form of “social totalitarianism” emerging under conditions of globalization. Professor Mason suggested that this distinction may help explain how citizens can be incorporated directly into systems of surveillance and enforcement. In this model, coercion does not depend solely on formal state institutions; ordinary people may be encouraged to monitor and act against others in the name of defending a threatened social order.
She illustrated this through Texas Senate Bill 8, under which private citizens were enabled to initiate legal action related to abortions prohibited by the law. Mason interpreted this as an example of citizens being effectively deputized to observe, report, and act against those seeking to terminate pregnancies. For her, this produces a form of surveillance and coercion exercised “in the name of the people” and, simultaneously, in the name of the unborn. She argued that demographic fears can therefore fuel a populist form of mobilization in which citizens themselves participate in enforcing moral and reproductive boundaries.
Dr. Koxha: Demographic Populism as an Emerging Political Project
Dr. Klaudia Koxha intervened in the discussion to address two questions raised by the panel: whether demographic populism may be developing into a broader political project, and where exactly the populist dimension lies within this framework.
Referring to the concluding chapter she co-authored with Professor Oscar Mazzoleni, Dr. Koxha explained that the book leaves open the question of whether previously separate struggles over migration, gender, reproduction, family, and identity are now becoming consolidated into a more coherent political agenda. What began as distinct issues mobilized for electoral purposes increasingly appears, she noted, to be connected through a common narrative centered on who is biologically reproduced and who constitutes the future population.
For Dr. Koxha, this inevitably raises historical questions about fascism, since fascist movements placed considerable emphasis on the biological, racial, cultural, and physical characteristics of the population. However, she stressed that the book treats this as an open question rather than a settled conclusion. It also raises the related issue of how effective counter-movements and democratic institutions may be in preventing such dynamics from developing further.
Turning to the question of populism itself, Dr. Koxha argued that the three familiar elements of populism—people-centrism, anti-elitism, and the restoration of sovereignty—remain clearly present in demographic populism. The anti-elite dimension appears, for example, when political establishments and mainstream parties are blamed for permitting immigration or allowing so-called “gender ideology” to enter schools and education systems. In her own chapter, she noted, similar claims depict native youth as disadvantaged by demographic and cultural change allegedly facilitated by political elites.
The sovereignty dimension emerges when radical-right actors argue that the “real people” have lost control over these transformations. In this sense, demographic populism does not merely identify demographic threats; it presents elites as enabling them while portraying the authentic people as deprived of the power to shape their own collective future.
Dr. Koxha then returned the floor to Professor Reinhard Heinisch.
Prof. Heinisch: Elite Culpability and Loose Civilizational Framing Keep the Radical Right Populist
Professor Reinhard Heinisch responded directly to the question of where populism lies within radical-right demographic politics. He argued that the populist dimension remains strong precisely because these actors combine radical-right themes such as nativism and civilization with a clear attack on political elites. Professor Heinisch emphasized that elites are routinely portrayed as responsible for demographic and cultural change. Depending on the narrative, they may be depicted as deliberately causing such developments or as so incompetent that “stupidity alone cannot explain” what is happening. This attribution of culpability, he argued, is central to the populist logic.
At the same time, he distinguished this form of politics from more elaborate ideological traditions. In the Austrian case, the Freedom Party does not offer a deeply developed theory of civilization or ethnic difference comparable to historical fascist movements or to some other contemporary radical-right parties. Instead, its worldview is comparatively eclectic and loosely constructed.
Professor Heinisch contrasted this with Germany’s AfD, which, in his view, has invested more heavily in defining Germanness, national history, and civilizational identity through detailed ideological elaboration. The Austrian Freedom Party, by contrast, operates with a much thinner programmatic framework.
He also stressed that the party’s references to Christianity are largely cultural rather than devotional. Party actors may openly acknowledge that they are not religious or churchgoing, while still defending what they regard as Austrian Christian traditions.
For Professor Heinisch, this ideological thinness is precisely what makes the party’s discourse highly adaptable. Civilizational and demographic themes function less as parts of a systematic doctrine than as flexible tools for reframing political conflict, assigning blame to elites, and defining the boundaries of the legitimate people.
He concluded that this is why the Austrian case remains distinctly populist: the discourse centers on culpable elites, a loosely defined authentic people, and contested boundaries of belonging, even while drawing simultaneously on broader radical-right themes.
Final Reflections
Dr. Klaudia Koxha closed the substantive discussion by asking each panelist to step outside the specialist debate and identify one key point that a non-specialist audience should take away about demographic politics today. The resulting reflections brought together the panel’s central themes while also revealing different analytical emphases.
Professor Reinhard Heinisch offered the most concise formulation. For him, demographic populism is fundamentally the transformation of demographic change into a story about national survival and cultural replacement. The crucial political act lies in this reframing. Once demographic developments are narrated in terms of collective survival, they can generate wide-ranging political consequences that demand further study.
Professor Carol Mason emphasized instead the emotional dimension of populist politics. She described populism as a politics of feeling and encouraged audiences to pay attention to how demographic rhetoric makes them feel. Fear, resentment, sentimentality, and a sense of being overwhelmed can be politically powerful precisely because they do not always require a fully articulated argument. Returning to her earlier discussion of abortion, Professor Mason reiterated that anti-abortion politics can function as a strategy for generating emotional mobilization rather than simply as an end in itself. Demographic talk, in this sense, can promise powerful feelings without necessarily offering policies that produce the outcomes supporters actually seek.
Professor Carlos de la Torre emphasized both commonality and variation across radical-right populist movements. He identified recurring themes such as nostalgia for an idealized past, law and order, hostility toward communism, the left, and progressive politics, and, in many cases, racialized and gendered understandings of social order. At the same time, he stressed that these categories are imagined differently across regions. In Latin America, for example, racial inequality may be denied through narratives of mestizaje or “racial democracy,” while anti-racist claims are portrayed as foreign imports. Similarly, challenges to traditional gender roles and the heterosexual nuclear family may be framed as externally imposed threats associated with “gender ideology,” LGBTQ+ activism, or feminism. His central point was that the emotional and mobilizational power of radical-right populism must be studied comparatively, with attention to how common themes are translated into different national and regional contexts.
Associate Professor Alberta Giorgi drew attention to the politics of knowledge. Her principal takeaway concerned the ways science, statistics, numbers, academic authority, and expertise can be weaponized within demographic narratives. She stressed that demographic politics does not operate only through overt ideological claims; it also depends on how apparently objective knowledge is selected, interpreted, and circulated. The role of science and numbers, she argued, therefore deserves close attention across different national settings.
Professor Oscar Mazzoleni concluded by distinguishing between demographic change itself and the political interpretation of that change. Profound demographic transformations are real features of contemporary societies, but the ways they are framed can vary significantly. He argued that radical-right actors simplify this complexity by defining an authentic or “true” people and grouping together diverse social actors as enemies allegedly responsible for undesirable demographic trends. These may include groups whose ways of living or thinking differ from dominant norms. In this process, complexity is transformed into a simplified narrative of legitimate people versus threatening outsiders.
Dr. Koxha closed the panel by drawing these insights together. She emphasized that demographic politics is not simply about population statistics or demographic trends. It is fundamentally about how such developments are interpreted, connected to questions of identity and belonging, and politically mobilized.
Conclusion
The panel demonstrated that demographic populism is best understood not as a direct political response to demographic change, but as a process through which demographic developments are selectively interpreted, connected, and transformed into narratives of collective threat. Across the cases discussed, migration, fertility, abortion, gender, religion, race, family, and social policy became linked through a recurring question: who constitutes “the people,” who belongs to that community, and who is imagined as securing—or endangering—its future.
The discussion also underscored the comparative flexibility of this political logic. In Austria and Italy, demographic concerns are articulated through immigration, cultural Christianity, and replacement narratives; in Latin America, race, mestizaje, gender, and the heterosexual family occupy a more central place; while in the United States and Russia, anti-abortion politics and the symbolic figure of the “unborn” connect reproduction to national and civilizational futures.
A further insight concerned the consequences of these narratives once they gain traction. Demographic populism can restructure party competition, influence policy agendas, reshape public perceptions, build transnational networks, and redefine deservingness and belonging. It can also sustain permanent campaigning by allowing political actors to reinterpret policy constraints as evidence that elites or external institutions are obstructing the will of the people.
Ultimately, the panel showed that demography is never politically self-explanatory. Numbers acquire meaning through discourse, emotion, institutional competition, and struggles over knowledge. As Dr. Klaudia Koxha emphasized in closing, demographic politics is therefore fundamentally about how demographic developments are interpreted, connected to identity and belonging, and mobilized politically.
In this commentary, Dr. Ana Filipa Joaquim develops a political-marketing framework for understanding the adaptive power of digital populism. Drawing on her book “The Age of Digital Populism,” she argues that populism’s “chameleonic” character lies in its ability to alter themes, leadership images, and audience appeals while preserving a recognizable antagonism between “the people” and their opponents. At the center of the analysis is a nine-P model—People, Polarization, Propaganda, Personification, Performance, Propagation, Precision, Permanence, and Participation—which connects symbolic positioning with the circulation and reproduction of political narratives. The framework highlights how adaptability, repetition, audience segmentation, leadership, and participation interact across digital environments, while distinguishing communicative visibility from persuasion, electoral success, and governing competence.
The book A Era do Populismo Digital: Como a Desinformação e a Propaganda Estão a Transformar a Política [The Age of Digital Populism: How Disinformation and Propaganda Are Transforming Politics] is currently available only in Portuguese and has not yet been published in an English-language edition.
The conceptual diversity of populism research raises a question about how a politically recognizable phenomenon accommodates different ideological commitments and communicative environments. Drawing on The Age of Digital Populism – How Disinformation and Propaganda Are Transforming Politics, this article examines populism through an interdisciplinary political marketing perspective. Its argument is that populism’s chameleonic capacity allows themes, leadership images and audience appeals to change while sustaining a recognizable antagonistic relationship between the people and their opponents.
The nine Ps model identifies the interconnected practices through which this adaptability becomes strategically meaningful: People, Polarization, Propaganda, Personification, Performance, Propagation, Precision, Permanence and Participation. The framework connects symbolic positioning with the circulation and reproduction of political narratives. It offers an interpretative contribution, with European illustrations, while distinguishing communicative visibility from persuasion, electoral success and governing competence.
Conceptual Disagreement and An Interdisciplinary Perspective
Populism occupies a central place in political debate without having acquired a single, universally accepted academic definition. Its frequent use as a term of political criticism compounds the problem: a label employed to discredit opponents can become detached from analytical criteria. In A era do populismo digital, this conceptual difficulty provides the starting point for examining the connections between political meaning, strategic communication and mobilization (Joaquim, 2026: 23–27).
The disagreement concerns the analytical status of populism as well as its defining features. Mudde and Rovira Kaltwasser (2017) conceptualize it as a thin-centered ideology organized around a moral opposition between the people and the elite. Laclau (2007) approaches it through the discursive construction of a collective political subject and the articulation of demands. Moffitt (2016) foregrounds political style, embodiment and performance. Weyland’s (2017) political-strategic approach emphasizes personalistic leadership and its relationship with followers. These perspectives locate populism in different, sometimes competing, dimensions of political life.
Conceptual plurality does not mean that scholarship has failed to identify meaningful patterns. It indicates that ideological content, discourse, leadership and mediated performance cannot simply be treated as interchangeable objects. The question is how to examine their relationships without assuming that one perspective exhausts the phenomenon. Sorensen’s (2021) integration of ideology, performance and mediation supports the relevance of this broader communicative enquiry.
An exclusively classificatory debate can therefore be complemented by a question about strategic practice: how are social grievances translated into recognizable political offers, directed towards particular audiences and sustained through repeated interaction? Moving beyond a narrowly disciplinary reading of populism makes political marketing useful here. This broadens political analysis through attention to audience relationships, symbolic value and communication. It does not require abandoning ideological differences or treating citizens as equivalent to commercial consumers.
There is also an established basis for this connection. Winder and Tenscher (2012) examine populism as a political marketing technique concerned with communicative relationships, organization and mobilization. Lees-Marshment (2011) situates political marketing within strategic engagement with public expectations. The present argument draws these concerns together through the nine Ps model developed in Joaquim (2026). Conceptual disagreement alone does not establish that populism is marketing; the analytical justification lies in the strategic construction, differentiation and circulation of its political offer.
Chameleonic Adaptability as a Strategic Resource
Sign of the right-wing conservative political party Chega, led by André Ventura, in Faro, Portugal, March 16, 2023. Photo: Dreamstime.
The book explicitly identifies populism’s chameleonic nature as a source of political strength (Joaquim, 2026: 55). The metaphor describes adaptation with continuity. Populist actors can change the themes they priorities, the identities they invoke and the opponents they designate while retaining an antagonistic account of legitimate representation. Its flexibility concerns how the political division is expressed and made relevant within particular circumstances.
This interpretation is compatible with the thin-centered ideological approach. A limited ideological core can attach itself to different political projects, helping explain why populism is not confined to a single ideological family (Mudde & Rovira Kaltwasser, 2017). It is also consistent with the book’s distinction between cultural, socioeconomic and anti-establishment configurations. These overlap in practice, allowing identity, material insecurity and institutional distrust to be combined in different proportions (Joaquim, 2026: 67–77).
The European illustrations clarify this flexibility without establishing a uniform strategy. The book discusses national identity in France’s Rassemblement National, or National Rally, and the combination of anti-corruption, cultural and socioeconomic appeals in Portugal’s Chega. The themes differ in emphasis, but both can be organized through a morally charged distinction between a deserving community and those represented as responsible for its predicament (Joaquim, 2026: 76–77, 111–113). These examples illustrate how national specificity shapes political communication.
From a marketing perspective, this adaptability involves the construction of perceived relevance. A political offer acquires value when it gives recognizable expression to grievances, offers belonging and identifies an apparently intelligible response. Positioning distinguishes that offer from established alternatives, while leadership and recurring symbols help maintain recognition. Changing an emphasis from insecurity to corruption need not dissolve the broader narrative if both are presented as consequences of an unresponsive or illegitimate establishment.
Adaptability does not imply the absence of ideology or unlimited freedom to change. As the book stresses, emotion reconfigures the experience of ideology rather than simply replacing it (Joaquim, 2026: 31–36). Historical conditions, institutional arrangements and existing political commitments shape the available appeals. The marketing perspective explains how these materials are organized in relationships with audiences; it cannot, by itself, explain every source of political dissatisfaction.
Chameleonic strength thus rests on a tension between variation and recognizability. Messages must respond to changing concerns while preserving enough continuity to sustain identification. The nine Ps make this relationship analytically accessible by connecting the definition of a political community with the practices through which its narrative is embodied, distributed and repeatedly renewed.
The Nine Ps as an Integrated Marketing Strategy
The model comprises People, Polarization, Propaganda, Personification, Performance, Propagation, Precision, Permanence and Participation. Developed in Chapter 15 of the book, these dimensions constitute an interpretative framework rather than a linear campaign sequence (Joaquim, 2026: 129–150). Their relevance derives from their interdependence. The preceding discussion of political marketing supplies the connection to segmentation, positioning, branding and the construction of symbolic value (Joaquim, 2026: 105–114). The nine Ps reorganize these concerns around the distinctive communicative practices of digital populism.
People identifies the collective subject in whose name the political project speaks. This is a discursively constructed community, endowed with moral legitimacy and boundaries of belonging. Its strategic importance lies in offering citizens a position within the narrative: their experiences become evidence of what has happened to the community. The political offer consequently combines proposed action with recognition. As different grievances gain prominence, the representation of the people can adjust without abandoning the claim to speak for a legitimate collective subject (Joaquim, 2026: 130–132).
Polarization gives that community an antagonistic relationship with its opponents. Differences become moralized, allowing political choices to be experienced as affirmations of identity. Within the model, this concerns a communicative practice of constructing conflict, not an independently measured level of polarization across society. Its strategic function is to distinguish the political offer through an intelligible attribution of responsibility. The relevant analytical question is how disagreement is transformed into a distinction between legitimate representatives and actors presented as undeserving of recognition (Joaquim, 2026: 132–134).
Propaganda organizes the problems through which antagonism acquires urgency. Selection, emphasis and dramatization can turn complex circumstances into emotionally charged interpretations. Entman’s (1993) account of framing clarifies the importance of defining problems and attributing responsibility. The book treats corruption, insecurity and immigration as recurrent themes through which this process operates. Propaganda may involve real grievances interpreted selectively; fabrication is not a necessary condition. Its place within the model is to connect attention with a politically consequential understanding of what is wrong and who should answer for it (Joaquim, 2026: 134–135).
André Ventura of the Chega party speaking during the plenary session of the Portuguese Parliament debating the government’s motion of confidence, March 11, 2025.
Personification concentrates the political offer in a recognizable leader. Image, biography and public conduct become resources through which a complex organization acquires an accessible identity. The book discusses André Ventura’s centrality to Chega as an illustration. The leader can provide continuity across changing themes because audiences recognize the person through whom the project is represented. Yet this concentration also creates dependency: damage to individual credibility can destabilize the wider narrative. Personification therefore combines an opportunity for identification with organizational vulnerability (Joaquim, 2026: 136–138).
Performance concerns how the narrative is enacted through gesture, tone, confrontation and staged proximity. Moffitt’s (2016) analysis of political style helps explain why the form of a political intervention matters to its reception. Informality or an emotionally intense appearance may support a perception of authenticity, even when carefully constructed. In this model, performance means communicative enactment, distinct from electoral results or governing effectiveness. Personification identifies the figure who embodies the offer; performance concerns the experience through which audiences encounter that figure and attach meaning to the message (Joaquim, 2026: 138–140).
Propagation concerns the circulation of messages across platforms, social networks and mediated encounters. Supporters, journalists and other intermediaries can extend the visibility of material beyond its original audience. Sharing also allows messages to be reinterpreted, so strategic circulation is not reducible to organizational control. The book relates propagation to the interaction between emotional engagement and platform visibility, while recognizing the role of informal networks. The dimension identifies how a political offer acquires communicative reach. That reach remains distinct from persuasion or evidence of electoral support (Joaquim, 2026: 140–142).
Precision describes the adjustment of content, tone and framing to particular audiences through segmentation and data use. This provides a direct connection between chameleonic adaptability and marketing practice: different concerns can be addressed through differentiated appeals within a recognizable narrative. Precision concerns the intended fit between a message and an audience; it does not certify targeting accuracy or imply that every campaign has equivalent technical capabilities. Its democratic significance lies partly in visibility, since citizens may encounter different political promises without being able to scrutinize the complete range of appeals (Joaquim, 2026: 142–144).
Permanence refers to sustained narrative presence through repeated themes, symbols and interpretations. The repetition need not be literal. Wording and format may change while preserving a familiar account of political responsibility. Research on illusory truth demonstrates that repetition can influence perceived truthfulness (Fazio et al., 2015), although this does not establish the effects of any particular campaign. Permanence gives the model a temporal dimension: recurring interpretations can become the frame through which subsequent events are understood. Its effectiveness remains conditional, since repetition can also generate saturation and fatigue (Joaquim, 2026: 144–146, 186).
Participation incorporates audiences into the reproduction of political meaning. Reactions, comments, shares and user-generated content can express belonging, extend circulation and supply visible signals of approval. It overlaps with propagation but identifies a distinct relationship: citizens contribute to the visibility and perceived legitimacy of the narrative. Their activity can also provide feedback that informs subsequent communication. Participation may broaden access to political expression while reinforcing homogeneous communities. Interaction counts therefore cannot be treated as measures of informed deliberation or representative public endorsement (Joaquim, 2026: 146–148).
Adaptation and Reinforcement Across the Nine Ps
The model’s interpretative value lies in the relationships among its dimensions. The construction of the people supplies a political identity, and polarization establishes the conflict within which that identity acquires significance. Propaganda selects problems that connect the conflict with recognizable experiences. Personification and performance give the offer an identifiable presence, while precision and propagation concern its adjustment and circulation. Permanence sustains recognition over time, and participation supplies further opportunities for amplification and renewal.
The connection between precision and permanence is particularly important to the chameleonic argument. Differentiated messages need not repeat identical language to sustain the same interpretation of political life. Appeals organized around corruption, economic insecurity or cultural threat can reproduce a common distinction between the community and those held responsible for its difficulties. Adaptation concerns the immediate appeal; continuity can reside in the underlying attribution of legitimacy and blame (Joaquim, 2026: 76–77, 142–146).
Participation helps connect this variation with visible social validation. When supporters share or reinterpret messages, they contribute to their persistence and can make them appear socially endorsed. Further interaction may then encourage additional circulation. This relationship explains why analyzing a single post, leader or engagement total captures only part of the communicative process. The framework directs attention to recurring connections among meaning, audience activity and visibility (Joaquim, 2026: 121–127, 146–148).
Such integration does not require a centrally controlled apparatus. Political organizations make strategic choices, but users and intermediaries can reproduce or modify messages autonomously. The book’s account of decentralized circulation prevents the marketing interpretation from becoming a claim that every manifestation results from deliberate planning. Strategy operates within an environment that political actors can influence without fully controlling.
Disinformation and the Limits of Communicative Success
Illustration: Shutterstock / Skorzewiak.
Disinformation can reinforce several dimensions of this strategy, connecting distorted claims with established grievances, recognizable leaders and repeated circulation. It is therefore examined across the relationships among the Ps. The distinction between deliberate deception and unintentional error remains necessary (Wardle & Derakhshan, 2017). Neither emotional intensity nor the use of marketing techniques is sufficient to classify a message as disinformation. Propaganda, deception and strategic distribution have related but analytically distinguishable functions (Joaquim, 2026: 95–118).
The explanatory limits are equally important. The framework synthesizes the book’s conceptual argument and illustrative European discussions; it does not present a new dataset or a comparative test of the nine dimensions. The available material does not establish the independent contribution of each P to persuasion or electoral outcomes. The analysis concerns strategic organization and plausible relationships among practices, with attention to their contextual conditions.
The book also identifies vulnerabilities associated with communicative success. Leadership dependence can turn personal credibility into organizational fragility; repetition can produce exhaustion; simplified promises can become difficult to sustain when confronted with governing responsibilities (Joaquim, 2026: 185–187). Chameleonic adaptability does not remove these tensions. A capacity to revise a message cannot be assumed to supply the institutional competence required to address the problem it describes.
Democratic assessment consequently extends beyond whether a strategy attracts attention. It concerns whose grievances acquire recognition, whose membership is denied, how differentiated appeals can be scrutinized and whether visible participation supports informed judgement. The book’s discussion of media literacy, platform transparency and political accountability addresses these connected concerns (Joaquim, 2026: 201–207). The analytical task is to understand how communication organizes influence while retaining criteria for evaluating its consequences.
Conclusion
The absence of a single academic conceptualization of populism creates a case for analytical dialogue across disciplines. Its chameleonic capacity makes political marketing particularly useful for examining how varied political contents are organized into recognizable offers of belonging and representation. The nine Ps specify the practices through which this organization acquires communicative form. Their contribution lies in connecting adaptation with continuity, and strategic intention with audience participation. Approached in this way, digital populism can be analyzed as a marketing strategy whose strength depends on sustaining identification across changing circumstances, while its effects remain contingent and its democratic consequences require scrutiny.
Fazio, L. K.; Brashier, N. M.; Payne, B. K. & Marsh, E. J. (2015). “Knowledge does not protect against illusory truth.” Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 144(5), 993–1002. https://doi.org/10.1037/xge0000098
Joaquim, A. F. (2026). A era do populismo digital: Como a desinformação e a propaganda estão a transformar a política[The age of digital populism: How disinformation and propaganda are transforming politics]. Editora d’Ideias.
Moffitt, B. (2016). The global rise of populism: Performance, political style, and representation. Stanford University Press. https://www.sup.org/books/title?id=25175
Wardle, C. & Derakhshan, H. (2017). Information disorder: Toward an interdisciplinary framework for research and policy making (DGI(2017)09). Council of Europe. https://rm.coe.int/information-disorder/168076277c
Weyland, K. (2017). “Populism: A political-strategic approach.” In: C. Rovira Kaltwasser, P. Taggart, P. Ochoa Espejo, & P. Ostiguy (Eds.), The Oxford handbook of populism (pp. 48–72). Oxford University Press. https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780198803560.013.2
Winder, G. & Tenscher, J. (2012). “Populism as political marketing technique.” In: J. Lees-Marshment (Ed.), Routledge handbook of political marketing (pp. 230–242). Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9780203349908-28
In this ECPS interview, Professor Michael Kazin, a leading historian of American populism, social movements, and the Democratic Party, examines the asymmetrical rise of MAGA and democratic socialism in contemporary US politics. While stressing that the American left can significantly influence Democratic priorities, Professor Kazin argues that it has historically failed to take control of the party and concludes that “the Democratic Party will not become a socialist party anytime soon.” He links this limitation to the decline of organized labor, noting that Democratic class appeals increasingly come “from the top down.” At the same time, Professor Kazin contends that Democrats cannot simply return to the politics of Obama or Biden and must confront inequality, healthcare, housing insecurity, corruption, and distrust in government more fundamentally.
As the United States approaches the November 3 midterm elections, American politics is being reshaped by two powerful but asymmetrical currents: the consolidation of MAGA within a highly personalized Trump presidency and the growing visibility of democratic socialism within a Democratic coalition that remains considerably broader than its left flank. This tension provides the backdrop to the ECPS conversation with Professor Michael Kazin, Professor of History at Georgetown University and Editor Emeritus of Dissent, a leading historian of American populism, social movements, and the Democratic Party. Professor Kazin’s scholarship has long explored the political language of “the people,” the evolution of the American left, and the relationship between social movements, class politics, and party transformation. Georgetown likewise identifies Kazin as a scholar of US political and social movements, while his influential The Populist Persuasion traces recurring conflicts between “the people” and powerful elites across American history.
At the center of the interview is a fundamental question about whether the current revival of democratic socialism can move beyond insurgency and become a durable governing force. Professor Kazin’s answer is deliberately cautious. While the left can exercise substantial influence within the Democratic Party, he stresses that “historically, at least so far, it has not been able to take over the party entirely.” His conclusion is unequivocal: “The Democratic Party will not become a socialist party anytime soon.”
Yet Professor Kazin does not equate this electoral ceiling with political irrelevance. He argues that the contemporary left resembles earlier progressive factions that transformed Democratic priorities without controlling the party. Bernie Sanders demonstrated this dynamic in 2016 and 2020, while the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) have developed substantial organizational capacity in heavily Democratic cities. For Professor Kazin, their influence illustrates how a faction “does not control the party, but it can have a great deal of influence over it.”
The deeper obstacle, however, is organizational and social. Professor Kazin identifies the decline of organized labor as a critical reason Democrats struggle to construct a persuasive class-based politics. When unions were stronger, working-class appeals came from workers speaking to other workers; today, he argues, “when Democrats make a class appeal, it comes from the top down.”
This diagnosis also shapes Professor Kazin’s understanding of the post-Trump Democratic Party. He argues that Democrats increasingly recognize that they “cannot simply return to some of the policies of Obama or Biden” and must confront long-standing problems including economic inequality, healthcare, housing costs, and distrust of government. In this sense, the interview presents democratic socialism less as an imminent replacement for mainstream Democratic politics than as a persistent force capable of shifting the boundaries of what the party considers politically necessary and possible.
In an interview with the ECPS, Professor Damir Kapidžić examines Bosnia and Herzegovina’s October 4 elections through the intertwined lenses of ethnonationalism, democratic erosion, patronage, institutional paralysis, and foreign influence. He argues that the country’s principal democratic danger lies less in dramatic constitutional breakdown than in the “slow death” of institutions gradually weakened by illiberal practices, elite capture, and political incentives that reward dysfunction. Professor Kapidžić also highlights the durability of ethno-national patronage, the limits of civic alternatives, and the persistence of war memory and religious identity in structuring political competition. Looking beyond the elections, he cautions that Bosnia remains “stuck in the past,” with democratic renewal unlikely without changes in both domestic incentives and the wider external environment.
Bosnia and Herzegovina approaches its October 4 elections at a moment when the country’s post-Dayton political order is once again under pressure over statehood, entity autonomy, ethnic representation, and democratic legitimacy. The campaign is shaped less by a conventional left-right divide than by competing visions of citizenship, constituent peoples, sovereignty, and the future of the Bosnian state. Against this background of ethnonationalism, populism, democratic erosion, and geopolitical influence, the elections offer an important vantage point from which to assess not only who will govern, but also the deeper institutional structures that continue to constrain Bosnia and Herzegovina’s democratic development.
In this wide-ranging interview with the European Center for Populism Studies (ECPS), Professor Damir Kapidžić, Professor of Comparative Politics at the Faculty of Political Science and Director of the Institute for Social Science Research at the University of Sarajevo, argues that Bosnia’s most consequential democratic danger may not take the form of spectacular constitutional collapse. Rather, it lies in the gradual erosion and paralysis of institutions. “We do see the possibility of what I would not call a dramatic constitutional breakdown, but rather a slow death,” he warns, explaining that institutions can simply cease to function when government formation, regulatory bodies, or judicial appointments are left indefinitely unresolved. In his assessment, “the gradual normalization of illiberal practices is likely to continue,”while “a more likely scenario… would simply be a slow demise.”
Professor Kapidžić situates this institutional vulnerability within the contradictions of the Dayton system. While power-sharing has helped prevent renewed large-scale intercommunal violence, he argues that political elites have also “been able to capture the system for their own purposes.” The resulting elite consensus, he observes, has often centered not on effective governance but on “keeping the rule of law weak, not resolving wartime legacies, and capturing state institutions.”
These dynamics are reinforced by deeply embedded patronage networks. Coalition negotiations, Professor Kapidžić notes, are rarely programmatic; instead, they revolve around “the division of power and resources rather than the creation of policies.” Ethnonational parties therefore operate not only as guardians of identity but also as gatekeepers of material opportunity, presenting themselves as protectors of their communities’ access to “resources and employment.”
Looking beyond October 4, Professor Kapidžić remains cautious about the prospect of democratic renewal. Bosnia, he argues, is “very stable, but also stable in a negative sense,” with progress occurring “either very slowly or not at all.” The deeper problem is a political order “stuck in the past”—not simply the wartime past, but “the past 30 years of very little changing.” Without altered domestic incentives and a transformed external environment, Bosnia risks remaining trapped in what he describes as a recurrent political loop, “without clear signposts, clear guidelines about the possibilities, or a clear path forward.”
In this interview with ECPS, Dr. Semir Dzebo, Postdoctoral Researcher at the Centre for Socio-Legal Studies at the University of Oxford, examines Bosnia and Herzegovina’s October 4 elections through the lenses of populism, nationalism, secessionism, and ethnic politics. He argues that Bosnia remains marked by “stable instability”: Dayton secured peace but has struggled to function as a democratic constitution. Dr. Dzebo discusses “populist secessionism,” the erosion of anti-elite appeals under long incumbency, competing constructions of “the people,” Croat and Bosniak representation, foreign influence, disinformation, and the limits of territorial revisionism. Rather than expecting dissolution or a sweeping constitutional settlement, he points toward incremental reform, EU integration, stronger state capacity, desegregated schooling, cross-ethnic electoral incentives, and improved economic conditions.
Bosnia and Herzegovina approaches its October 4 elections amid renewed strain on the political architecture established by the Dayton Peace Agreement. More than three decades after the end of the 1992–95 war, questions of statehood, entity autonomy, ethnic representation, foreign influence, and the legitimacy of shared institutions remain deeply intertwined. Political competition continues to be structured less by a conventional left–right divide than by competing understandings of sovereignty, citizenship, collective rights, and of who constitutes the legitimate political community. Against this fragmented backdrop, the elections are not simply about who will govern Bosnia and Herzegovina, but about the character and durability of the post-Dayton state itself.
In this interview with the European Center for Populism Studies (ECPS), Dr. Semir Dzebo, Postdoctoral Researcher at the Centre for Socio-Legal Studies at the University of Oxford, examines these tensions through the lenses of populism, nationalism, secessionism, and ethnic politics. He argues that electoral competition in Bosnia carries unusually high constitutional stakes because “whatever coalition gets formed after the October 4th elections is, in a way, a choice about the state itself.” In this sense, the election resembles “a de facto referendum” on the country’s future political architecture.
A central theme of the conversation is what Dr. Dzebo conceptualizes as “populist secessionism.” Whereas ordinary nationalism operates along a horizontal axis of competition between national communities, populist secessionism introduces a vertical, moral division between an allegedly authentic people and corrupt or illegitimate elites. In this framework, political disagreement becomes morally charged: as Dr. Dzebo puts it, disputes that might otherwise be negotiated can acquire “this moral dimension that turns them into treason,” making compromise appear as capitulation.
The interview also explores the limits of this strategy. Dr. Dzebo’s research suggests that support for secession in Republika Srpska is driven less by populist attitudes than by ethnonational identification, ingroup bias, deteriorating intergroup relations, and economic grievance. Long incumbency, moreover, can erode the credibility of anti-elitism: voters predisposed against elites may increasingly view Milorad Dodik himself as part of the elite.
The broader diagnosis culminates in Dr. Dzebo’s assessment of Dayton itself. Bosnia, he argues, lives in a condition of “stable instability.” Dayton “has really accomplished the first task” of securing peace, but “has not really been great at the second task” of functioning as a democratic constitution. Yet he rejects both expectations of imminent dissolution and hopes for a sweeping constitutional reset, instead pointing toward incremental reform, EU integration, implementation of Strasbourg judgments, stronger state capacity, desegregated schooling, cross-ethnic electoral incentives, and improved economic conditions as the more plausible path toward a more cohesive democratic order.
Here is our interview with Dr. Semir Dzebo, edited lightly to enhance clarity, readability, and overall flow for publication.
Bosnia’s Elections Are De Facto Referendums on the State
Photo: Dreamstime.
Dr. Dzebo, welcome! Bosnia and Herzegovina enters the October 4 elections with its post-Dayton political order under considerable pressure, and the central political divisions concern not simply left and right but competing understandings of statehood, sovereignty, entity autonomy, citizenship, and ethnic representation. Looking at the campaign as a whole, are these elections fundamentally about who governs Bosnia and Herzegovina—or about what kind of political community and state Bosnia and Herzegovina should be?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Before I start responding, thank you very much for the invitation to be part of the series. With regard to your question, it’s very hard to separate those two things, especially in Bosnia. Whatever coalition gets formed after the October 4th elections is, in a way, a choice about the state itself. It’s a little bit like a de facto referendum on what kind of coalition architecture we’re going to have after the elections.
There’s the option of continuing the Troika model, then potentially the return of SDR, or strengthening the entity-focused axis of SNSD and HDZ. And there’s maybe a larger question looming there about the pardon of Milorad Dodik, depending on what kind of coalition is formed.
I think it’s a little bit unusual because, in most other countries, elections are just about elections and who’s going to govern, without necessarily thinking these elections are going to change the nature of the state itself. But in Bosnia, it’s always a little bit intertwined when it comes to those things.
Certainly, what I really liked in your introduction about the elections was that you said it’s really less about issues that are considered in other countries’ elections, where it’s liberal versus conservative, it’s left versus right. There’s very little sort of program being announced and promoted by parties. Some of the people who have done research on these elections have found that not even 10% of social media content by parties has been about anything but a program.
It’s more about these traditional ethno-national tensions, and that’s why the tension is on top of everything. It’s not necessarily what ordinary voters care about, but, in a way, it’s omnipresent, so they’re almost forced to think about those things.
Then we recently had the death of Ratko Mladić, the convicted war criminal, which was almost a gift for those wishing to stoke the flames of nationalism again, and it forced itself into these elections again as something to really be considered.
Populist Secessionism Turns Disagreement into Treason
Your recent work introduces the concept of “populist secessionism” to describe the fusion of anti-elite populism with ethnonational claims to territorial separation. In Republika Srpska, how should we distinguish ordinary Serb nationalism from specifically populist secessionism? What changes when the claim that Republika Srpska must defend its national autonomy is reframed as a struggle of a morally authentic “people” against corrupt domestic elites, Sarajevo institutions, and international authorities?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: I followed the line of thinking of people who have done earlier work on the distinctions between nationalism and populism and the fusion of those two, like Rogers Brubaker, and then my PhD advisor at Central European University, Erin Kristin Jenne, who writes about ethno-populism. They tried to differentiate them as having two different axes.
I would say that ordinary Serb nationalism would be a horizontal axis, where claims of rights and autonomy of the Serb nation relative to other nations are made in this comparative sense, and the goals of that nationalism can be pursued through institutions. It is acceptable, in that view, that there will be those who disagree on the best course of action and the best way to pursue the goals of Serb nationalism within Serb people.
But populist secessionism has a vertical or moral axis, where the nation has a singular will. The leader is the one who embodies it, and everyone who presents an obstacle is part of the corrupt elite. In my paper, I thoroughly analyzed the discourse of Milorad Dodik. I find that he has three types of elites that he targets.
The first one is the domestic opposition, the Serb political parties within Republika Srpska that are his opposition, the ones that run for votes, that he used to run for votes against; now he’s technically not a part of these elections. Then you have the Bosniak elite in Sarajevo, whom he also targets within the country. Then there’s also the element of what he presents as a neo-colonial international community that he sees as standing in the way of the will of the people and imposing these external decisions without, according to him, any legitimacy to do so.
So, what happens is that some of these disagreements that could happen and could be debated get this moral dimension that turns them into treason. It almost prohibits any sort of compromise, because it sees it as capitulation to the interests of those who wish to harm the Serb national project in Bosnia.
Dodik Uses Populism to Redirect Discontent
Milorad Dodik greets supporters in Pale, Bosnia and Herzegovina, following a meeting and referendum on Republika Srpska’s National Day, September 25, 2016. Photo: Vladimir Stanisic / Dreamstime.
One of the most intriguing findings of your research is that Milorad Dodik’s populist-secessionist discourse appears to function more effectively as an elite political strategy than as a direct reflection of mass attitudes: stronger anti-elitism was actually associated with lower support for both secession and Dodik’s party, while ethnic identification, ingroup bias, and economic grievances were stronger predictors. Does this suggest that analysts have overestimated the popular foundations of secessionism in Republika Srpska? And if so, why does the rhetoric remain politically so persistent?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Partly, it really does. There’s definitely support for secession in Republika Srpska. It’s real support, and it tends to vary a great deal. But in a survey that I’ve done, I found that it has almost nothing to do with populist attitudes. In fact, those who really hold populist attitudes, and we see them as a combination of anti-elitism, pro-people, and a Manichaean element, are actually the ones who have lower support for both Dodik’s party and secession.
Those who support secession are actually motivated by other, more traditional motivations, like just a sense of distinct ethnonational identity, just a sense that intergroup relations in the country are already poor, that the country is really not a unified whole.
But again, the reason why this populist secessionism exists, and the reason why Dodik uses it, is because it really enables him to have a tool and a discursive arsenal to attack domestic opposition, the Bosniak elite, and the international presence in the country. It really helps him to try to mobilize against all of these elites in pursuit of goals, because he can’t mobilize the anti-elite discourse.
What it shows is that, among people living in Republika Srpska, those who are predisposed to dislike elites are the ones who think of elites in Banja Luka; those are the ones they directly live under. So those who are dissatisfied with elites tend to think of Dodik as elite, while Dodik essentially wants them to think of the Bosniaks in Sarajevo or the international presence in the Office of the High Representative as the elite.
It’s a discursive move to try to shift attention from his long-standing incumbency and the things that people might be dissatisfied with, and to get the people’s attention onto other targets where he can fare more favorably in competition with.
Anti-Elite Voters Increasingly See Dodik as the Elite
That finding also creates an apparent paradox: populists normally mobilize against entrenched elites, yet SNSD has exercised power for many years while continuing to present itself as a resistance movement against Sarajevo, international bureaucrats, and external interference. Does prolonged incumbency eventually exhaust the credibility of populist anti-elitism? Or can ethnonationalism compensate for that contradiction by continually redefining the incumbent elite as the defender of the community against more distant and allegedly more threatening elites?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Exactly. At the mass level, it really shows that long incumbency is going to exhaust the appeal of anti-elitism. As I said in response to the previous question, those who are predisposed to have anti-elite attitudes are less likely to vote for Dodik or his party because they think of him as the elite. So, if they have an anti-elite predisposition, they’re going to think negatively of him and his party.
This also shows, and is in line with other work, that it’s a bit of a methodological question for all of us working on populism whether standard attitude scales work for predicting support for populists once they are in power for a long time. Sebastian Jungkunz and his colleagues had a paper on this, where it shows that these scales predict support really well when populists are in opposition, but once they hold on to power for a long time, the predictive power of populist attitude scales for support for populists actually vanishes.
This is something that the field still needs to try to figure out better: How do we measure this once populists are in power for a bit longer? What you also see in this campaign for these elections is that those who are really appealing to anti-elitism in the sense of intra-ethnic competition are the opposition in Republika Srpska. They’re saying, we need justice back. We’ve seen them accuse Milorad Dodik of being a false patriot who’s just willing to sell national interests for personal gain, or just asking him to let the reins of power go so the people can finally live.
So, the opposition is really trying to mobilize this anti-elitism against Dodik and his party. What he tries to do is, like you said, shift this anti-elitism from intra-ethnic competition towards the High Representative, towards the Bosniak politicians, and present themselves, the SNSD, as really the savior, the defender of the interests of Republika Srpska.
Weakening SNSD Would Not Weaken Serb Nationalism
How important is it to separate dissatisfaction with SNSD and Dodik from attitudes toward Serb national autonomy itself? Much of the opposition in Republika Srpska challenges corruption, patronage, and personalized rule but remains strongly committed to Serb national interests. If SNSD were significantly weakened in these elections, would that represent a decline of ethnonational politics—or merely a change in who is considered the most credible representative of the Serb national project?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: I would say it’s the latter. If you look at recent examples, such as the death of Ratko Mladic, opposition politicians were present at memorial services, showing that they remain aligned with these ideas and the national project. Some opposition members also went to Belgrade for the commemoration and praised Ratko Mladic and everything that he has done.
So, while they are willing to challenge Dodik on issues such as corruption, the rule of law, and the use of his position for personal gain, they are not going to make a major shift in how they view the position of Republika Srpska or the project of Republika Srpska vis-à-vis the state of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
If SNSD is significantly weakened, as you say, it would be more a statement about the electorate no longer trusting Dodik with the national project and wanting to select someone else because of fears or dissatisfaction that he is willing to compromise or sell out vital parts of this national project for personal gain. You can sometimes see this in decisions regarding the non-recognition of the decisions of the Office of the High Representative, which were later reversed in exchange for the lifting of personal sanctions imposed by the US on Dodik.
That is what the opposition is trying to do: attack him on this basis. If the result is as such, it can certainly signal that people no longer trust him with the national project.
Bosnia’s Ethno-Populist Axes Are Almost Fused
Bosnia and Herzegovina contains several rival constructions of “the people”: the Serb people of Republika Srpska, a historically vulnerable Bosniak community closely associated with the defense of the Bosnian state, the Croat constituent people demanding “legitimate representation,” and a civic conception centered on citizens irrespective of ethnicity. Does this plurality make Bosnia a particularly distinctive case of populism, because political actors compete not only over who represents “the people” but over who the legitimate people actually are?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: It’s a valuable case for all the work on ethno-populism, in particular, because there is no singular people. In the Constitution, it’s defined as three constituent peoples, and then we have others. As a result, the vertical and horizontal axes that I talked about earlier are almost fused and confused everywhere.
One good example of this is the concern that has existed for years within the Croat community over the issue of legitimate representation: whether the way elections are set up allows Bosniaks, because of their sheer larger numbers, to choose the Croat representative to the presidency, and whether this is what they call legitimate representation.
You see the Bosniak member, Bakir Izetbegović, who is the candidate for presidency, borrowing this a little bit and saying that if the member of Troika is elected to be part of the presidency, that will almost be like token Muslim representation, but that wouldn’t be legitimate.
Then, within the elections for the Croat member of the presidency, the opposition, instead of using anti-elitism, is saying, “Hey, you have the same people who have been running the country for a very long time, and we need change.”
So, it’s quite a distinctive case when it comes to who the people are. It’s really valuable for those of us who study ethno-populism to devote attention to the unique dynamics that we have in Bosnia.
Mladić’s Death Mobilized Pride, Grievance, Fear, and Anger
Ratko Mladić is depicted on a Serbian flag during a political rally in Belgrade, Serbia, on May 29, 2011. Mladić is a former Bosnian Serb military leader. Photo: Dreamstime.
The funeral and commemorative ceremonies for Ratko Mladić appear to have reactivated sharply divergent memories of the 1992–95 war. What emotions and forms of political mobilization did they generate among Serbs, Bosniaks, and Croats? From a populism perspective, did political actors use these ceremonies to reinforce boundaries between “our people” and rival communities or elites, revive narratives of victimhood and betrayal, and frame contemporary conflicts as continuations of unresolved wartime struggles?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Reactions were obviously different. Among Serbs in Republika Srpska, the official reaction, as well as the reaction by most of the opposition, was, in a way, one of pride, but also of mourning and grievance. There were tribute gatherings across the cities and across the entity, including in Srebrenica itself. Certain politicians were trying to present his imprisonment as suffering endured by the entirety of the Serb people. The resulting events related to it in Serbia were intended to send the message that Serbia and Republika Srpska are as one.
Obviously, for Bosniaks, the emotions were quite different. They were ones of humiliation, fear, and anger. Some of the events, like at the football game, when the fans of Crvena zvezda at the Belgrade Stadium had a banner saying, “Pravac Potočari (Straight to Potočari),” which is an infamous saying by Ratko Mladić, were like a clear invocation of genocide. So, there has also been a lot of mobilization on the part of ordinary people trying to report these to the relevant authorities in order to deal with the rise of genocide-denial sentiment through potentially legal channels.
Bosniak Outbidding Takes the Form of Defending the State
The Bosniak political field is itself fragmented between national-conservative, social-democratic, liberal, and civic currents. Can Bosniak political fragmentation weaken ethnonational polarization by preventing one actor from monopolizing national representation, or does electoral competition instead create incentives for rival parties to demonstrate that they are the more credible defenders of Bosnia, Bosniak security, and the integrity of the state?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Yes, there’s a good side to this fragmentation, and that is democratic accountability. Because there are multiple legitimate options, there’s a way for the electorate to hold those in power accountable and vote them out once they’re not happy with their performance. But outbidding still happens. In particular, it depends on the level of perceived danger to the state and to the existence of Bosniaks within it.
So, let’s say Bakir Izetbegović has been saying that we might not have a country if, again, Troika and Denis Bećirović are elected to power, and that governing with SNSD and HDZ BiH is really a humiliation. Again, it’s like this populist logic: you cannot really compromise on this; otherwise, you’re selling out the people.
I think everything that’s happened with Dodik also gave Troika an opportunity to try to act as defenders of the nation and maybe make some moves that would make them appear tougher when it comes to matters of security and inter-ethnic relations.
But there is also restraint. For example, I’ve read some analysis of the elections saying that it’s actually been quite subdued, that it’s been unusually quiet when it comes to the elections for the Bosniak presidency. I think Bećirović has said that he doesn’t want to campaign on quarrelsome politics. He said he wants to focus on jobs and crime.
So, one thing that’s different, obviously, is that when it comes to Bosniak outbidding, it takes the form of trying to defend the state. But when it comes to outbidding in the case of Republika Srpska, it goes into the realm of separatism.
The Croat Representation Grievance Is Very Real
A comparable tension exists around Croat demands for “legitimate representation.” Supporters see collective representation as necessary to prevent a numerically larger community from determining who represents Croats, while critics fear that further institutionalizing such principles would deepen ethnic territorialization. Is this ultimately a conflict between two democratic logics—individual political equality and collective national representation—and has the Dayton framework reached the limits of its ability to reconcile them?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: It is really a conflict between two democratic logics. From the standpoint of the Croats in Bosnia, their idea is that the representative of the people in the presidency should be chosen by them. If it’s the Croat representative, it should be chosen only by Croats. Obviously, the Dayton Agreement has different prescriptions, and it’s written into the Constitution that what happens is one person, one vote. So, everyone living in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina has the right to choose whom they want to vote for.
The ruling in the case of Sejdić-Finci has pushed more towards this idea of individual equality, where they’re more sympathetic towards the first option, while the Constitutional Court has a different idea of what the decision should be. The grievance in the case of the Croat community is very real because Željko Komšić won the seat four times, each time with a substantial amount of non-Croat support. The discourse on it is still very much the same.
Bosnia Is More Ethno-Populist than Religiously Populist
Religion in Bosnia is often intertwined with national identity rather than operating as a wholly independent ideological cleavage: Islam with Bosniak identity, Serbian Orthodoxy with Serb identity, and Catholicism with Croat identity. Would you therefore characterize Bosnia as a case of religious populism, or is it more accurate to speak of ethnonational populism in which religious institutions, symbols, sacred geography, and memories of collective suffering provide legitimacy and emotional reinforcement to political projects whose primary logic remains national?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: I think it’s the latter. It’s more about ethno-national populism. I don’t think there’s much there in terms of sacred reinforcement along religious lines. Because of the nature of how ethnicity works in Bosnia in terms of identity, and because it’s a bit fused with religion, it works as this boundary marker of where one belongs or is supposed to belong. But I don’t see much religious doctrine infused into the way populism or ethno-populism works.
Economic Support Is Far More Popular than Territorial Revision
Photo: Mar Tas / Dreamstime.
Your work on kin-state politics in Serbia finds that nationalist appeals can increase support for cultural and economic assistance to co-ethnics abroad, while public resistance to more aggressive territorial revision remains considerably more robust. What does this tell us about Serbia’s relationship with Republika Srpska? Should we distinguish carefully between popular support in Serbia for protecting or assisting Bosnian Serbs and actual public willingness to endorse secession, territorial revision, or destabilizing intervention?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: What it tells us is that, when it comes to matters of irredentism, there are two very different sides to it. One is assistance in terms of economic and cultural support, and what I found is that people are much more willing to support those in the first place. They can also be convinced to either increase or decrease their support through rather minimal framing.
If you frame it as support being costly—that those are funds we could invest here at home in Serbia—then they will decrease their support. If you convince them that there is this duty to support their ethnic brethren, their ethnic kin in Bosnia, then you can convince them to increase their support.
But when you start talking about changing borders, which would likely result in conflict, people will, as a baseline, be less likely to support that. You are also less likely to convince them to either increase or decrease their support, no matter how you try to frame it.
It means that there is really a limit to how much you can engage in this irredentism, and that as long as it’s economic or cultural, you can work with that, you can increase it if you wish to, and you can try to mobilize support for it. But changing borders is really just not something that people will change their minds about, and it does not seem to be something that is as popular as economic and cultural support.
Kin-State Engagement Must Be Transparent and Neutral
More broadly, how should we distinguish legitimate kin-state engagement from political interference in Bosnia’s elections? Serbia and Croatia have obvious constitutional, ethnic, and historical connections to Bosnian Serbs and Croats, while Russia, Turkey, Hungary, the European Union, and the United States possess very different political, strategic, religious, and economic interests. At what point does diplomatic, cultural, religious, financial, or media engagement cease to be ordinary external influence and begin to distort domestic democratic competition?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: What needs to happen, not just in the case of Bosnia, but also anywhere where there is this ethnic kin element of states having ethnic kin abroad, is that, according to the recommendations of the 2001 Venice Commission report on kin-states and the OSCE prescriptions, any engagement of states with their ethnic kin abroad should, first of all, be transparent in terms of the fact that it is occurring.
It should, in the best-case scenario, be channeled through the institutions of the host state, but if that’s not the case, at least the host state institutions should be made well aware of it. Then, it should not be used for the purposes of mobilizing voters, which we often find to be the case, but it should really be aimed at communities at large.
It shouldn’t be timed to the electoral calendar, but should really be sustained long-term support and engagement. And lastly, it should be neutral to the constitutional order of what we call the host state, where the ethnic kin lives.
If these conditions are not satisfied, then you tend to have friction, which can also result in a worsening of the situation of the co-ethnics that live within the host state.
International Inconsistency Feeds Secessionist Opportunities
Foreign influence is frequently narrated through the same populist vocabulary as domestic conflict: external actors can be represented either as protectors of a threatened community or as illegitimate elites overriding popular sovereignty. In Republika Srpska in particular, opposition to the Office of the High Representative and international intervention has become integral to political mobilization. Does international involvement unintentionally strengthen populist secessionism by allowing domestic elites to present constitutional constraints as foreign domination?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: I talked about it quite a bit in the first part of our interview. It really gives a convenient target for Dodik. For example, one of the things related to the elections now is that these are going to be the first elections with the introduction of new election technology and machines. What is supposed to be a technical safeguard against fraud, Dodik is calling the will of unelected foreigners who are trying to impose this technology for the purposes of potentially defrauding the election.
It’s a very convenient target, and throughout his career, he has always targeted the Office of the High Representative, the previous US administration’s ambassador, the US Embassy, and the other European embassies. But I don’t think that this international involvement really causes secessionism. There are all of these other domestic motivations that translate into support for secession. Even if international involvement feeds or gives potential targets for anti-elitism, we also see from this that anti-elitism doesn’t really translate into support for secession.
What, in the case of Bosnia, feeds secession is the opening of potential opportunities to advance secessionist causes because of the inconsistency of the international actors in Bosnia. We have the former High Representative announcing his resignation, and then there’s a bit of disagreement over who the new High Representative is going to be. There might be changing opinions on the mandate of the High Representative in Washington, D.C., as opposed to the opinions in the EU.
So, the inconsistency, the disagreement within the international community, is providing these openings for those who might favor secession in Republika Srpska to try to advance it a bit more, but not involvement per se.
Bosnia Is Highly Vulnerable to Disinformation
Illustration: Shutterstock / Skorzewiak.
Information politics seems especially important in this election. ODIHR is explicitly monitoring social-media campaigning as well as foreign and domestic misinformation, disinformation, and interference. In a society where media spaces are already fragmented along political, territorial, and ethnonational lines, how vulnerable is Bosnia and Herzegovina to coordinated information campaigns? And is their principal danger that they persuade citizens of entirely new ideas, or that they intensify pre-existing fears, historical grievances, and perceptions of ethnic threat?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Structurally, when it comes to disinformation, Bosnia is very vulnerable. The media space is very fragmented, and there is also a wide reach of media from Serbia and Croatia. A lot of people also get their information from Facebook. There’s been great work done by people at organizations like Istinomjer and Raskrinkavanje, who have documented bot networks and Facebook pages that have been used to smear the opposition and politicians, as well as fabricated posts and a lot of AI-generated content.
Polarization is omnipresent, with ethnic polarization also omnipresent in the coverage of the news, and I don’t think the current fines for any misuse of media are really meaningful. I also don’t think that there’s any danger that it’s going to convert people who weren’t nationalists into nationalists, but there is a danger that it’s just going to amplify nationalist sentiment among those who were already predisposed to it.
One particular danger that I talked about just a while ago is the denial of results. Dodik has already planted the seeds with his comments on the new technology—that the international community is doing it so they could defraud SNSD and him, and that it’s a Western tool of fraud, as he calls it. The danger is that, through the media that is co-opted by SNSD, there’s going to be a rejection of the results, or some of it happening even in advance, whatever the results turn out to be.
The Challenge Is Separating Populism from Antagonism
You have also worked on computational approaches to identifying populist discourse, including research suggesting that large language models can detect context-sensitive people-versus-elite framing with accuracy approaching expert human coding. Could such tools help us map the 2026 Bosnian campaign across Bosnian, Serbian, and Croatian language environments—identifying when ordinary nationalism becomes populist, when religious or historical symbolism is mobilized, and how narratives travel between domestic political actors and external information ecosystems? What methodological cautions would be necessary in such a deeply context-dependent political setting?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: It’s a good question. Having worked in this area, there’s promise there, but I would still say that, for a place as complicated as Bosnia, especially when it comes to distinguishing all of the things that you said from one another, I don’t think we are that close to doing all of it.
But some of the work that I’ve done with my colleagues in Team Populism has really managed to use large language models to replicate the work of human coders when it comes to recognizing populism. As part of all of the testing that we have done, some of it included speeches from Montenegro in Montenegrin, and the results there were really encouraging. Obviously, that would also work in the case of Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian texts.
One of the cautions that I had from similar work on these computational approaches is that it’s sometimes hard to separate populism from just antagonism. The hostility between ethnic groups is everywhere, but not all of it has these elements of populism, like people-centrism, anti-elitism, and Manicheanism. So that would be my primary concern. It’s also about some of the contextual elements—the extent to which those would work.
One other thing that we should try doing is looking at how a lot of the campaign has moved on to digital things like songs, video, and symbols. So, for scholars of populism who work on those things, that would be another interesting thing to look at.
Bosnia Lives in Stable Instability
And finally, Dr. Dzebo, thirty-one years after Dayton, is Bosnia and Herzegovina approaching a point at which the original peace-making consensus can no longer provide a sustainable democratic equilibrium? Dayton successfully institutionalized safeguards against domination, but it also entrenched ethnicity as a central principle of political representation. Looking beyond October 4, do you see a plausible path toward a renewed constitutional settlement that preserves collective security while expanding civic equality and cross-ethnic political competition—or is the more likely trajectory a continued fragmentation in which competing national communities increasingly interpret sovereignty, democracy, and even the legitimacy of the state itself in incompatible ways?
Dr. Semir Dzebo: Hard question. I’ve heard someone once say that the best compromise is the one that leaves everybody unhappy, or at least a peace settlement. In a way, that’s the case in Bosnia, in that it’s a peace settlement that is also supposed to work as a democratic constitution. It has really accomplished the first task. It has not really been great at the second task.
We have this stable instability in Bosnia. There’s no active armed conflict, but there’s always, underneath the surface, some inter-ethnic tension. And also, the Dayton Agreement, the way it was framed, has created this self-reinforcing loop. The institutions, because they’re set up in a way that makes ethnicity the primary political identity, strengthen all these things that I found to also be feeding into secessionism in Republika Srpska, like in-group bias, which I found to be the strongest predictor of support for secession.
I don’t think we’re going to have, anytime soon, some grand settlement, but we’re also not going to have, at least in my opinion, dissolution. The most plausible path is one of incremental moves towards EU accession. Implementing the Strasbourg judgments would be a plausible path forward. Trying to strengthen state capacity through the reform agenda would be a plausible path forward.
In the slightly longer term, the priority should also be ending segregated schooling, because that would produce very positive societal benefits, as well as trying to add some electoral incentives that would emphasize winning votes across communities. Those incremental steps would have a very positive effect on the state of politics in the country.
One thing that I found in my paper on secessionism and populism is economic grievance. So I said in-group bias was the strongest predictor. Economic grievance was the second strongest driver of secessionist sentiment. And this really gives reason for some cautious optimism, because material conditions can change, in a way, more easily than all of the prescriptions of Dayton and the Constitution.
Trying to address the fact that more than half of young people are interested in leaving the country is really a pressing problem, and trying to improve economic conditions should be the priority of both domestic politicians and the international community. That has the potential to have very positive knock-on effects for societal cohesion and interethnic dynamics.
In this ECPS interview, Dr. Mara Nogueira examines Brazil’s 2026 presidential election through the intertwined dynamics of US influence, Bolsonarism, Lulism, religion, labor, and political identity. She argues that the role of the United States—and particularly the alignment between Donald Trump and the Bolsonaro family—has become a consequential new element in the contest, describing the election as “a very important and dangerous one.” Dr. Nogueira also reflects on the durability of Bolsonarism, the increasingly defensive character of Lulism, the political weight of evangelical networks, and the effects of precarious work, entrepreneurialism, and social media. More broadly, she situates Brazil within a transnational landscape of authoritarian and revanchist populism while stressing the importance of class, region, religion, and changing expectations of the state.
As Brazil approaches the October 4, 2026 presidential election, the contest is unfolding amid persistent polarization, a resilient yet more defensive Lulism, the continued strength of Bolsonarism beyond Jair Bolsonaro himself, and increasingly salient cleavages around religion, public security, welfare, and regional inequality. These dynamics are particularly significant in light of the research of Dr. Mara Nogueira, Senior Lecturer in the School of Social Sciences at Birkbeck, University of London, whose work examines the intersections of populism, urban politics, labor, inequality, informality, and political belonging in Brazil, with particular attention to revanchist populism, antipetismo, and the social and spatial foundations of Bolsonarism.
In this interview with the European Center for Populism Studies (ECPS), Dr. Nogueira emphasizes that Brazil’s 2026 election cannot be understood exclusively through domestic political cleavages. Alongside the enduring influence of anti-PT sentiment, regional divisions, gender, class, and religion, she identifies the role of the United States—and particularly the Trump administration—as a new and consequential element in the electoral landscape. “One thing that you didn’t mention in your question and that I think is worth pointing out is the influence of the US in this election,” she stresses, adding pointedly: “They’re not hiding it.”
For Dr. Nogueira, this external dimension became especially visible when President Donald Trump imposed tariffs on Brazil, measures that she interprets as carrying “a very high political element.” She also points to broader American strategic interests in Brazil and argues that political influence should be understood alongside economic considerations, including US interest in Brazilian mineral resources. “There are several interests at play,” she notes, “political influence being one of them.”
The contrast with the 2022 election is, in her view, particularly significant. While Washington inevitably had interests in Brazilian politics under President Joe Biden, Dr. Nogueira argues that the current situation is qualitatively different because “the alignment between Trump and the Bolsonaro family is very well known.” This relationship, she cautions, constitutes “a dynamic there that will need more attention and more scrutiny.”
It is in this context that Dr. Nogueira describes the 2026 election as both unusually consequential and potentially dangerous. According to her, the presence of “one political project that’s very well aligned with American interests”means that, “with Trump in government,” the consequences “could be a very disastrous thing for Brazil and Latin America.”
The interview therefore situates Brazil’s electoral contest not only within the domestic struggle between Lulism and Bolsonarism, but also within a broader transnational configuration linking Trumpism, far-right populism, economic restructuring, religious mobilization, and changing expectations about the role of the state.
Beyond the question of US influence, the interview also explores the changing balance between Lulism and Bolsonarism as political projects. Dr. Nogueira argues that Lulism remains anchored in the Northeast and among lower-income voters, but has become increasingly defensive. She suggests that “Lulism has perhaps become a victim of its own success,” as social mobility has altered popular aspirations and Lula’s political appeal has become more closely associated with defending past achievements than promising transformative change.
Religion is another central theme. Dr. Nogueira stresses that evangelical identity has become deeply embedded in everyday social networks and political value formation, particularly in Brazil’s urban peripheries. At the same time, she cautions against treating “the evangelical vote” as a homogeneous bloc, emphasizing the intersection of religion with class, region, gender, and other identities.
The interview further situates Brazil within broader transformations in labor and political communication. Dr. Nogueira connects precarious employment, entrepreneurialism, and changing expectations of the state to the appeal of authoritarian and revanchist populism, while also highlighting the growing importance of social media and algorithmic echo chambers in shaping political identities and limiting communication across electoral divides.
Here is our interview with Dr. Mara Nogueira, edited lightly to enhance clarity, readability, and overall flow for publication.
The Election Will Probably Be Decided by a Very Tight Margin
People shout slogans during an International Workers’ Day demonstration in São Paulo, Brazil, on May 1, 2026. Photo: Dreamstime.
Dr. Nogueira, welcome! Brazil enters the October 4 election with Lula and Flávio Bolsonaro separated by only a few points in recent polls, while runoff scenarios also remain extremely tight. What, in your view, are the most important forces currently shaping this contest: evaluations of Lula’s government, the persistence of anti-PT sentiment, the durability of Bolsonarism, economic concerns, public security, religion, or something else? And which of these factors do you think scholars have tended to underestimate?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: Thanks again for having me. As you mentioned, this is turning out to be a very tight race. There’s been some oscillation in the polls, and we can talk about those as we progress. But what the polls have shown since the beginning of the electoral campaign is that a large chunk of the electorate is very stable, showing loyalty to the two sides of this contest: electoral support for Lula on the one hand and for Flávio on the other. So, what we are seeing is that the election will probably be decided by a very tight margin and by a group of voters who are more moderate and not necessarily aligned with either of the two main political groups in Brazil.
All the reasons you have mentioned are relevant explanations for the contest. They’re playing different roles. But I thought that, before we went into the analysis, it would be worth mentioning a bit more about the polls—a more broken-down analysis of what they’re showing. They reveal some of the important factors shaping the contest.
Lula, for instance, is leading in nine states, according to the latest Quest poll. Out of those nine, eight are in the northeast of Brazil. The northeast remains one of his strongholds. Flávio is leading in eight states, and his support is not as centered in any specific region in Brazil. It’s a little more spread out. They are technically tied in nine states, so there are a lot of places where you can’t call a winner yet. Although you can’t call a winner anywhere right now, two of the places where they are tied are São Paulo, which is obviously Brazil’s largest electoral college of voters, and Minas Gerais, which is where I’m from and has perhaps also been Brazil’s swing state, to borrow an American term.
In the last two elections, in 2018 and 2022, whoever won in Minas Gerais won the national election. The margins have been very close as well. In the latest election, Lula won by something like 0.5% of the voters, and that was more or less the margin by which he won in Minas Gerais as well.
So, you have this sort of regional aspect to the race. The other thing to consider is gender. Lula is ahead amongst women, whereas Flávio is ahead amongst men. This is a polarization that is not uncommon in other electoral races around the world.
Lula is ahead in all age groups at the moment, but his lowest margin is amongst younger voters, 16 to 34 years old. Lula is leading in the lowest income bracket, which is up to two minimum wages, and leading by a very high margin. They are almost tied in the middle-income bracket, which is between two and five minimum wages, and Flávio is leading amongst those with higher incomes, which is more than five minimum wages.
Finally, religion, as you mentioned, is also another important element. Lula is leading amongst Catholics, and Flávio leads amongst evangelicals. So, you have some important aspects that are revealed by the polls, and what people have talked about since the beginning is that women’s votes would be very important in this contest.
US Influence Is Shaping Brazil’s Election
It also shows that there are several internal factors shaping this election. But one thing that you didn’t mention in your question and that I think is worth pointing out is the influence of the US in this election. They’re not hiding it. Even before the electoral race began, when Trump imposed tariffs on Brazil, those tariffs had a very high political element to them. He mentioned Bolsonaro, for instance, the father, in his tweet when he announced the tariffs.
Now, in Latin America, in the latest elections, the US has had some role in influencing the race in all of them. Brazil is no different. Brazil is a very important country in the regional context, and the US is very interested in some minerals that Brazil owns. There are several interests at play, political influence being one of them.
I think this is one element that is shaping the election, and perhaps it’s a new element in comparison with the 2022 contest. Not to say that the US wouldn’t have had any interest in Brazil’s election back then, but we had Biden in the American government, whereas now, with Trump, the alignment between Trump and the Bolsonaro family is very well known. So, there is definitely a dynamic there that will need more attention and more scrutiny.
That also makes this election for Brazil a very important and dangerous one, because there is one political project that’s very well aligned with American interests and, with Trump in government, that could be a very disastrous thing for Brazil and Latin America.
Anti-PT Sentiment Shapes the Race a Lot
Supporters of Flávio Bolsonaro gather on Avenida Paulista in São Paulo for an Independence Day rally under the slogan “Brazil Will Win.” Photo: Dreamstime.
The 2026 election is striking because Jair Bolsonaro is absent from the ballot, yet Flávio Bolsonaro remains highly competitive. Does this suggest that Bolsonarism has successfully outgrown Jair Bolsonaro as an individual leader and become a more durable political identity? Or does the reliance on another member of the Bolsonaro family indicate that the movement remains fundamentally personalistic and dynastic?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: The one thing that you mentioned in your first question, which was the anti-PT sentiment, is very relevant here as well to understand. Because if you look at the polls for the second round at this stage, we can’t take them seriously because things will change, for sure, after the first round. But what they show is that any candidate—because what’s happening now is that you have Lula on the one side, which represents the center left in Brazil, and all the other candidates with any meaningful vote base are on the right and on the far right. They’re all somehow in the Bolsonarism political force that you mentioned. What the polls show is that Lula would be more or less in a similar position. So, anti-PT sentiment does shape the race a lot. And that sentiment has been very enduring in Brazilian society. The question is: does anti-PT sentiment necessarily mean Bolsonarism?
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we have Flávio as a contestant rather than, for instance, Tarcisio Gomes de Freitas, who is the current governor of Sao Paulo and who is running again for election in Sao Paulo, and whom a lot of the elites in Brazil would have preferred as a candidate rather than Flávio. But his father—the family has an interest in the continuity of their dynasty in government.
Bolsonarism Is Part of a Wider Trend of Far-Right Populism
When we’re talking about Brazilian elections, we have to think about it in a context as well, because the far right is a global phenomenon. It’s not just a Brazilian thing. In Brazil, Bolsonaro was, and perhaps remains, even if in prison, the leader of this movement. So, as I already mentioned, despite the numerous scandals surrounding Flávio’s candidacy, he remains competitive partially because of his surname, and partially also because he’s the candidate who has the highest chance of winning against Lula. He’s surfing the wave of his father’s popularity, even if he lacks much of the charisma and the passion that his father had. His voters as well are much less passionate and much less vocal about their support. But they are still very loyal.
So, on the one hand, Bolsonarism is part of a wider trend of far-right populism that I see as a result of multiple factors. And some of those are global, like changes in the global market and the rise of entrepreneurialism as an individualistic response to worsening economic conditions. Also, the limits of representative democracy have to be mentioned. And little is said about how the traditional right has been shattered in multiple places, like the US with the rise of Trumpism, and in the UK with the rise of Reform UK and the demise of the Tory Party.
In Brazil, we saw the shrinking of parties like PSDB, which, for several elections, was the antagonist of the Workers’ Party, with Fernando Ricardozo and later José Serra and Geraldo Alckmin who is now Lula’s vice president. They have lost a lot of support, lost importance. Some have called this polarization, but there are critics who see this term as painting a false equivalence between these two political forces, because what has really happened in Brazil, and in much of the world, is that the political spectrum has been pushed to the right. As a result, even some left-wing parties have had to move a little bit more towards the center. Yes, it’s a polarization, but there’s one on the extreme right, and the other one has been pushed much more to the center.
The question then remains to be asked: what makes the far right so successful in the world right now? In my work, I have talked about the notion of revanchist populism, which, together with my colleague Ryan Sentner, we termed to talk about political movements of people wanting to take back the nation from undeserving groups. If you think about the Global North, if you think about the UK and the US, the most visible element of this political movement is the anti-migration sentiment. Whereas in Latin America, the main issue has been about criminality. These are two political questions that the left has a very difficult time addressing, and the right is quick to respond to with aggressive politics that cater to people’s concerns without actually delivering solutions to very real problems.
For instance, in Brazil, people are facing insecurity in their daily lives. Bolsonaro’s pro-gun agenda, which his son also sponsors, is completely harmful according to all serious research that you have around security, but it appeals to a part of the electorate who is dealing with the real issues of lacking safety in their everyday lives.
In my own research, I also talk about changes in the labor market, which are very important to think about, not only in the Brazilian election but in this changing panorama of politics in the whole world, and which explain the rise of authoritarian populism. Stable jobs are becoming less common, and social democratic states were very much founded on the role of the state as the mediator between capital and work. What we see now is a dissolution of this pact as a result of decades of neoliberal policies and austerity, and the rise of entrepreneurialism as an individual solution towards essentially a collective problem creates a situation in which people are less supportive of the government.
So, this question around what is the government and what’s the role of the government is very important in the current election. Because if you’re a worker, for instance, the state can protect you. Social protection for workers has been one of the key roles of the state in democracies. But when you are an entrepreneur, the state is the one who is taxing you and regulating you. So, there is less appreciation for what the state represents, which is a collective provider of services and rights.
Of course, in Brazil, corruption scandals like the most recent one, which is the Banco Master or the Master Bank fraud, reinforce the idea that the state is nothing but a corrupt machine that exists to suck resources from working people rather than provide rights. In my conversations in the field, I have tried to talk to people about the corruption of private actors, which is something very few people talk about. And I have talked about how billionaires don’t pay taxes, but people don’t seem to care about that as much because they see taxes as being poured into inefficient and corrupt states.
In that context, candidates like Flávio in Brazil and Javier Milei in Argentina are gaining ground because they promise essentially to axe the state, which, for a proportion of the electorate, sounds like a good idea because they perceive the state as a hindrance rather than something which is providing them with services and rights.
I think another element worth mentioning is social media, because the way people consume information has changed massively as well. In each election in Brazil, we have had—the first one where social media had an impact was in 2018. When Bolsonaro was first elected, when the TV ads that were usually the TV political campaign, which had been very important up until 2018, had very little impact because people were consuming news and information much more through WhatsApp and other social media than they were through the TV.
That trend has continued and has become even deeper with time. The way that algorithms create echo chambers means that the information that I see is very different from the information other people see. Sometimes, obviously, it’s hard for candidates to really reach across and reach other candidates’ bubbles with information. There’s very little that can do that. Just big scandals can cross those bubbles.
Religion is a main factor as well, but I think you have a question about that later, so I’ll save my answer.
Lulism Has Perhaps Become a Victim of Its Own Success
Brazilia’s Luiz Inácio Lula is seen during the 2022 election campaign in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on October 20, 2022. Photo: Aline Alcantara.
At the same time, Lulism appears resilient but more defensive than during Lula’s earlier presidencies. Lula remains strong among lower-income voters, Catholics, older voters, and in the Northeast, but his government enters the election without overwhelming approval. How would you characterize the current state of Lulism? Is it still a transformative political project, or has it become increasingly a coalition organized around social protection, democratic stability, and resistance to the radical right?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: What the polls show, as I mentioned in the response to your first question, is that Lula is very strong in the Northeast and also very strong with the poorest voters, up to two minimum wages. This group remains, like the Northeast, a stronghold of Lulism, and the poorest electorate also remains a stronghold of Lula. In the case of the Northeast, the region, which is the poorest in the country, has benefited from Bolsa Familia and other social programs that are essentially the backbone of what has been termed Lulism.
I look back at André Singer’s article, when he first coined this term, and in that article, what he was doing was calling attention to a change in the composition of Lula’s voters from 2002 to 2006, which were the first two elections that Lula won. In 2006, he had lost ground with the more educated, the middle and upper class, which was his main electorate in 2002 and also had been his main electorate throughout the three elections that he lost in ’89, ’94, and ’98. But this loss of this electorate, which was more loyal to him, was compensated for with electoral gains in what Singer called back then the subproletariat, which essentially means the poorest and the precarious workers, who are generally also informal—not waged workers. Also the unemployed, who benefited most from Lula’s social programmes, particularly Bolsa Familia.
So, when you ask if Lulism is still a transformative political project, or has it become increasingly a coalition organised around social protection, democratic stability, and resistance to the radical right, I think you’re pointing to something relevant, because Lula’s major achievement in his political life has been to uplift a huge amount of people from poverty. And a lot of people remember that, and a large amount of those who benefited are still loyal to him, as we can see from the poll numbers. He’s strong in office and amongst those with the lowest incomes.
But Lulism has perhaps become a victim of its own success, and there are other people talking about that, such as Rosana Pinheiro-Machado and Laura Carvalho. Both have published interesting articles recently in Brazil’s main media outlet, which is from Sao Paulo, talking a bit about these changes in people’s aspirations in recent years in Brazil, mostly people’s economic aspirations.
So, a lot of those who left poverty, as well as their sons and daughters, now want more. They are not the poorest of the poor anymore. They want—they aspire to something else. They aspire to social mobility, to being able to afford services and goods that would represent that transition. And I think, again, social media has an important role here because it really shapes people’s aspirations to access products and services that they are not able to access at the moment.
The Left Has Become Conservative While the Right Is Promising Change
I think what has been happening is that Lula’s campaign has been very focused on defending his legacy, defending the achievements of his previous governments, which are very important. He took Brazil out of the hunger map twice. He lifted a lot of people out of poverty. But this legacy is not taking him far enough at this point, because he needs to promise more than what he’s done already. He needs to perhaps promise a more transformative project.
It’s not just Lula who is struggling with that. That is an issue with all kinds of social democratic parties in the world, which also explains the rise of the right, which has become the more disruptive group. The left, and Lula is an example of that, has become conservative in the sense that it’s about defending a legacy, it’s about defending rights, it’s about conserving social gains, and the right is promising change.
I don’t believe that it’s change for the better, that it’s radical change that necessarily delivers what people want—these aspirations. But for a lot of people, that promise of radical change is very appealing. I think that shaped the 2018 election in which Bolsonaro won, is shaping a lot of the changes that we see in the UK, for instance, with Reform UK gaining ground, and explains a bit Trump’s win in the US. So, this idea that what people have right now is not enough and they want more, and they want radical transformation that the left has not been able to promise.
Lula Is a Victim of His Conciliatory Agenda
The government has placed renewed emphasis on Bolsa Família, debt relief, fuel prices, and household income during the final phase of the campaign. To what extent can the classic material foundations of Lulism still mobilize voters in a political environment where religion, security, morality, and cultural identity have become increasingly salient? Has the relationship between redistribution and electoral loyalty weakened?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: The impact of some of Lula’s more recent actions is yet to be captured by the polls. There was a rise in Bolsa Familia, for instance, and the most recent of his political moves has been to ban betting in Brazil, which has been identified as a huge problem connected to growing indebtedness, but also as a health problem in Brazil. You have addiction to betting becoming a key issue, sucking resources out of an already strained public health system.
Some of those moves haven’t been reflected in the polls yet. So we are waiting to see if they will have an impact on those swing voters that, as I said in the beginning, will be the most important in deciding the election.
But there is definitely a limit to the ways that better economic indicators, such as low inflation and low unemployment, are affecting people’s votes. There are other people—Laura Carvalho, in this journal article that I was talking about, mentions that. I think we have partially two issues.
One is that we have low inflation, but price levels are very high, and these high price levels are still an enduring consequence of the pandemic, and also perhaps Bolsonaro’s government, when we saw rising prices during his four years in government. We have low inflation, but what low inflation means is that prices are growing at a lower pace. So people are still perceiving that they’re spending a lot of money on products and services. There’s not a lot of money left after you’ve paid for your rent, and for food, and for fuel, and so on and so forth.
The other thing is that, yes, we have very low unemployment, historically low in Brazil, but Brazil remains a low-salary economy. If you look at the 2022 census results, which are now a bit old but give us a snapshot of Brazil, they showed that almost 70% of Brazilians earn up to two minimum wages. So there’s low unemployment, and incomes are growing ever so slowly, but you have a huge amount of Brazilians who are very low paid. With two minimum wages in Brazil, you’re very strained if you’re paying rent, if you’re paying for food and for fuel. There’s very little left at the end of the month.
When people post a show and people were asking, “Do you think you have enough money to pay for your monthly expenses?” a lot of people are saying no to that. Then you have indebtedness as an issue. As you mentioned, Lula has responded to that with several programmes. But one of the impediments to these policies being effective is that Brazil has a very high interest rate. That is a legacy of the Real Plan in 1994. When we controlled inflation, one of the elements of that plan was high interest rates. That has been a crucial characteristic of the Brazilian economy ever since. So indebtedness will be very difficult to deal with as long as we have high interest rates.
What I think is worth mentioning is that, just going back a little bit to Lulism and so on, and its constraints or its limitations, as I already mentioned, Lula delivered lower poverty rates and a stable economy, but without any radical changes in terms of the economic structure. I’m not saying that Flávio’s programme of government is better. It’s very unclear in its economic proposals. But there’s definitely a limit to the inclusion without structural change, or without challenging established elites, that Lula has promoted.
Lula, in some senses, is a victim of his conciliatory agenda, which makes him a very skillful politician, but brings limits when you are trying to please groups with very divergent needs and agendas. You’re bound to be unable to deliver radical change because, to do that, you have to actually step into very established interests.
For instance, if we go back again to Lula’s first election that he won in 2002, back then he assured markets by choosing a businessman as his vice president and promising to keep the main elements of his predecessor’s economic policy in place: inflation targets, primary budget surpluses, and a floating exchange rate. This macroeconomic tripod has become so key that nobody even mentions it anymore as something that’s challenged.
The Challenge for the Left Is to Offer a Political Project of Real Change
Rather than breaking sharply with the previous government, Lula signalled back then continuity in macroeconomic management by expanding social programmes. So the growth that he achieved and the inclusion were via taking people out of poverty and into the market, with real increases in minimum wages also boosting domestic demand. And as many have observed, it was a process of inclusion via consumption, essentially. People became consumers. The issue is that, when you’re a consumer, the state does not enter your life as a provider of rights, but as a tax collector.
You can see reflections of that in his government’s attempt to tax international purchases, aiming at websites such as Shein and Alibaba, which have grown immensely in Brazil. This tax was an attempt to help local businesses that are unable to compete with international brands, particularly Chinese. The reaction was so intense that the government has had to make a U-turn on that policy.
So the challenge for Lula and for the left in the world right now is to offer a political project of real change that can appeal to people’s aspirations. But this is not a very easy task, as shown by the difficulties of left-wing parties in various places, particularly in Latin America right now.
Religion Is Definitely a Big Factor Shaping Brazilian Politics
Tourists enjoy the first sunset after a week of rain and thunderstorms from Corcovado Hill, overlooking Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on March 3, 2013, with the Christ the Redeemer statue above the city. Photo: Kseniya Ragozina / Dreamstime.
Recent polling reveals one of the clearest religious divides in Brazilian politics: Flávio Bolsonaro has a substantial advantage among evangelicals, while Lula remains considerably stronger among Catholics. How decisive is this religious cleavage for the 2026 election, and what mechanisms actually convert religious affiliation into electoral behavior—pastoral leadership, church-based social networks, moral issues, digital communication, or broader perceptions of social order and threat?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: When I was talking about the polls in the beginning, I mentioned that Flávio Bolsonaro is leading amongst evangelicals, whereas Lula is leading amongst Catholics. In Brazil, religion is definitely a big factor that has been shaping society and politics for a longer period now.
It’s interesting to notice that Brazil is the only country in the world where we have observed a massive change in religious identity without any influence of the state. You have about a third of Brazilians right now, as shown by a recent research survey, who are evangelicals. If you look at Brazil in the 1950s, you had 90% of Brazilians who were Catholic back then. You have this huge change in religious identity in the country, which is bound to have a lot of societal consequences.
One of the things to notice is that the evangelical church has become, for a lot of people, the main way through which they find community and belonging, particularly in the peripheries of urban centers. In any peripheral neighborhood in Brazil, there are a number of evangelical churches. You might not find any sort of public services, you might not find many public schools or public health centers, but you will find evangelical churches almost anywhere in Brazil.
This religious identity is not just about values. It’s about people’s everyday lives, who forms their social networks, who they talk to, and how they form their values as well. When you mention that there are different aspects through which religion enters political life, I think the main one is through the formation of values. For years now, essentially, the ways that people see the world have been shaped by religious identities. When the electorate comes in and one candidate says things that are aligned with those values, this candidate is bound to attract more voters amongst those religious communities.
Obviously, it’s not just about values. You have different political figures in Brazil, like Silas Malafaia, for instance, who use their religious communities to support particular candidates. There is also pastoral leadership, as you mentioned: people who are leaders of religious communities, who really tell the community who to vote for.
Religion Shapes Electoral Behavior, but It Intersects with Other Identities
There has been a recent survey that Quest, alongside the Institute of Religious Studies in Brazil, has just published, and it shows a lot of interesting things about how religion shapes politics in Brazil. One of the things that it mentions is that when you think about people having religious identities, it’s not the only identity that they have.
For instance, if you take a person who is evangelical, the polls show that the majority of evangelicals vote for Flávio, but if you take, for instance, an evangelical person who lives in the Northeast and makes up to two minimum wages, there’s a big chance as well that this person might vote for Lula. So, you have these intersecting identities with religion, which also shape people’s votes, apart from religion itself.
One of the things that I thought was interesting that this survey showed is that about eight in 10 respondents were opposed to political discussions in churches. Around nine in 10 reject the presence of electoral candidates in religious services. Yes, religion might shape their identities, might shape their political votes, but people don’t want people asking for votes inside churches or asking for support or talking about politics inside churches. That doesn’t stop it from happening, but there is a rejection of that.
There’s an interesting point despite this idea that religion alone cannot explain people’s behaviors. There’s a new controversy every week in Brazil that is shaping the election. The most recent one has to do with Brazil’s patron saint, which is Nossa Senhora de Aparecida, or Lady Aparecida, who is Brazil’s patron saint.
Rumors are circulating that Flávio wins, due to an old bill proposed by one of his supporters to change Brazil’s patron saint, he will propose a change in Brazil’s patron saint. That has had such an effect that he had to record a video saying that he wouldn’t do that, holding a little doll of Lady Aparecida to cater to the Catholics. Because he can’t afford to lose. If you take people who are more educated, who are older, but are not very aligned with either of them, they are swing voters. So, the race is so tight that you can’t really lose voters in demographics where otherwise a candidate is more dominant.
This anecdote shows the importance of religion in Brazil and how it’s really shaping people’s electoral behaviors, but at the same time, it intersects with other identities when you’re thinking about how people actually vote.
Lula Is Trying to Reach Evangelicals Through Their Other Identities
At the same time, the category of “the evangelical vote” risks obscuring major denominational, class, gender, racial, and regional differences. Are there signs that evangelical support for Bolsonarism is becoming more politically differentiated? And could Lula’s attempts to engage evangelical constituencies meaningfully narrow this gap, or has evangelical identification with the Bolsonaro camp become too deeply institutionalized?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: As I already said, what this survey that I was mentioning shows is that religion alone cannot explain it. You have all these other social differences—class, gender, race, but also regional differences—which are shaping people’s electoral identities and votes.
Even though religion alone also has an impact, not just because of values but, as I mentioned before, also because certain key religious figures, particularly in the evangelical church, have very strong political affiliations with Bolsonarism. I didn’t mention before that it’s not just about the presidential race, but also the Congress. You have a whole group in the Congress, which is the Bible group, which is very much aligned with evangelical identities.
When you’re thinking about religion, there’s also the Congress to think about. Because we are very focused on the presidential race—because obviously it’s the tight race, it’s the one that polarises Brazil the most—the race to the Congress, and the power that the Congress has gained recently in Brazilian politics, is also very worth talking about.
But in relation to your question more specifically, Lula trying to gain the evangelical vote through a particular lens, like the evangelical vote, will not be very successful. But he’s trying to reach the evangelical vote through their other identities. For instance, if you look at the survey that I was talking about, which was with people throughout the whole of Brazil and people who are religious independently of their religion, what the survey shows is that there are divides between evangelicals and Catholics, but there are also a lot of convergences. One of them is that they support Bolsa Familia as a social program.
When Lula increases the Bolsa Familia payments, he is somehow trying to cater to the evangelicals who are supportive of Bolsa Familia. When he bans betting in Brazil, he is catering to the evangelicals to an extent. Rejection of betting in Brazil was at 75%, so he’s definitely going to get to evangelical families as well.
Whether they’re going to swing the vote to him remains to be seen, but there are measures that he’s taking that aim at groups that will also be evangelical. If he tries to cater to evangelicals through their evangelical identity, it’s going to be ineffective because he doesn’t have a history of connection to evangelicals, and he’s going to look fake, and I don’t think that would be very useful for him.
Bolsonarism Is Part of a Global Phenomenon
Labour Day celebrations at Old Town Square in Prague on May 1, 2017, featuring a banner depicting democracy as a leaf eaten by caterpillars labeled Putin, Kaczyński, Orbán, Babiš, Trump, and Fico. Photo: Jolanta Wojcicka.
Bolsonarism is frequently compared with Trumpism, and your work on revanchist populism situates Brazil within a broader geography of angry, restorative populisms. Yet Brazil differs sharply from the United States in its party system, religiosity, racial formation, labor informality, welfare state, and territorial inequalities. Which dimensions of Trumpism and Bolsonarism are genuinely comparable, and where does that analogy obscure more than it reveals? How would you situate Brazil alongside cases such as Milei’s Argentina or Bukele’s El Salvador?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: As I mentioned in the beginning, Bolsonarism in Brazil is part of a global phenomenon: the rise of the far right, or the authoritarian right, or revanchist populism, to use the term that Brian Sentner and myself have coined. It has to do with what I was talking about, which is this promise of radical change and this promise to retake the nation from undeserving populations. That is at the abstract level. But who those undeserving people are will be shaped by the different geographies and the different cultures and societies that we are talking about.
In the special issue that we had that talked about revanchist populism, one of the cleavages that we looked at in the US is this very clear division between the urban and rural vote. The urban vote tends to go to the Democratic Party, and the rural vote tends to go to Trump. In Brazil, we don’t necessarily have that.
You have the urban peripheries as key sites to think about swing votes—how peripheries have changed from supporting the left to supporting the right in 2018, and have remained divided ever since. What we see in Brazil, which is worth noting, is that urban peripheries are places where people are dealing with lack of infrastructure, where people are facing long commutes to work, and where people are using a very strained public health system.
Flávio Looks to Milei for the Economy and Bukele for Security
So, it ties back to that question of the government and of the state more broadly that I mentioned earlier: What’s the role of the state, and what is the state doing in my life? What candidates like Trump, Flávio, Milei, and Bukele promise is a liberal state in the economic sense and a strong state in the sense of controlling criminality and migration. Flávio, for instance, when he’s talking about his economic agenda and his agenda for public security, mentions Milei for the economy and Bukele for security. Those are two very important reference points for his campaign.
What you see is what the state should be doing. The state should not be taxing, and it ties back to that question that I mentioned earlier of how inclusion via consumption, on the one hand, as a policy, has turned people into consumers, and the demise of stable jobs. That’s not just a Brazilian thing. That’s also a very global phenomenon.
In Brazil, informality has been an issue for a much longer time, but uncertainty in the job market has become more relevant, and people become entrepreneurs as an individual response to problems around the lack of stable jobs. It turns people into entrepreneurs on the one hand and consumers on the other hand. For both of those positions in society, the state is not a provider of rights, it’s not a provider of services. The state is collecting taxes and regulating.
You see that, as I mentioned, just going back to the attempt of the state to tax international purchases. It’s a very interesting thing to look at, and how it backlashed against the government, because people want to consume, and they want to buy as cheaply as possible. That also has to do with their aspirations, which is another thing that I mentioned shaping people’s political choices and identities.
So, yes, there’s a lot of difference between Brazil and the US, but at the abstract level, you have that question around radical change and the role of the government. And this promise of freedom in the economic sense with conservatism and a strong state against migration and criminality.
Bolsonarism Is Very Much Alive and Will Stay with Us for Many More Years
And finally, Dr. Nogueira, the 2026 election appears to test two succession problems at once: whether Bolsonarism can survive Jair Bolsonaro through a wider political, religious, congressional, and digital ecosystem, and whether Lulism can survive beyond Lula’s personal authority. From the perspective of your work on space, labor, popular governance, and political affect, what would a genuinely post-Lula and post-Jair Brazilian political order look like? Which social forces are most likely to shape that transition?
Dr. Mara Nogueira: Unfortunately, Bolsonarism is very much alive and will last and stay with us for many more years, whereas Lulism is very attached to Lula at the moment. And that’s another one of the limitations of the Workers’ Party political agenda for Brazil, because there is no succession. Who is Lula’s successor? Fernando Haddad, for instance, who ran in 2018, didn’t attract as many voters as Lula does, and he’s not being very successful now against Tarcisio in Sao Paulo. He is Lula’s preferred choice to replace him in the future. But he doesn’t have the same charisma and the same capacity that Flavio has to attract his father’s voters. So, I don’t think you will see such a neat transition of voters from Lula to his successor as you see from Jair Bolsonaro to Flavio Bolsonaro, because they are related. But anti-Lula, anti-PT sentiment shapes a lot of people’s political choices.
If you were asking me how I see that in relation to my work, I already mentioned the changes in the labor market, which will also remain and will become even more relevant in the future. We are not seeing a movement towards more stability in jobs. On the contrary, with AI and other changes in the world, job stability is becoming more of a question. So, whoever wants to capture the political votes and also the political identities of people will have to deal with that change, will have to address people’s concerns and address people’s aspirations.
The other thing is social media, which we already talked about, that’s shaping how people consume content and news, and how they form their opinions. It is also not something that will change unless we have a very united front—not only in Brazil; it would have to be a more global thing—to regulate social media and to change the way algorithms and social media are working right now.
Unfortunately, I would like to have a more hopeful answer. But I think if Lula wins this election, I don’t see the Workers’ Party having a strong successor for the next round, for the 2030 election.
Young Voters Are Where Lula Is the Weakest
On the other hand, just going back to the polls, young voters are where Lula is the weakest. That’s another element to pay attention to. How do you capture the political vote of young people, or how do you cater to the needs of young people who are also dealing with the impact of climate change?
We didn’t talk about this during the interview because it’s not something that has been part of the political agenda at the moment. Neither Flavio nor Lula are very strong on climate change. Flavio is a climate change nihilist, whereas Lula has made some steps towards becoming a leader of the Global South in terms of the environmental transition and so on, but he also has such a strong attachment to the oil industry in Brazil. Thus, he doesn’t have a very stable position on the environmental agenda.
That might be something that could capture young voters, although it hasn’t played much of a role in this election contest, and could perhaps do so if someone appears on the left, such as Mamdani, whom you see in New York City. I think he’s one of the most interesting political figures on the left right now, because he’s promising radical change. The young voters and those struggling with all the issues that we’ve been talking about in this interview are hopeful together with him.
In this ECPS Voice of Youth (VoY) interview, Dr. Amedeo Varriale reflects on the study of populism, the responsibilities of scholars, and the boundaries between public engagement and political activism. Working primarily within the ideational tradition, he stresses conceptual clarity, methodological pluralism, and intellectual humility, arguing that “there is not necessarily one correct answer” in populism research. Dr. Varriale maintains that scholars should contribute to public debate through empirical evidence, theoretical transparency, scientific rigor, and procedural validity while resisting political advocacy. He also emphasizes the need to acknowledge uncertainty, present competing interpretations fairly, and remain transparent about research limitations. Ultimately, scholarship should inform democratic debate without attempting to determine its political outcome or replace citizens’ own electoral choices.
As part of the ECPS Youth Program’s Voice of Youth (VoY) interview series, Dr. Amedeo Varrialereflects on the intellectual, methodological, and ethical challenges confronting a new generation of scholars studying populism. A political scientist specializing in populism, the radical right, and contemporary European politics, Dr. Varriale traces his research interests to the political transformations that followed the 2015 refugee crisis, Donald Trump’s 2016 election, and Italy’s 2018 League–Five Star Movement coalition. His work subsequently developed around questions of how populism should be conceptualized, measured, and distinguished from more explicitly authoritarian and anti-democratic phenomena.
A central theme running through the interview is the importance of intellectual openness in a field characterized by competing definitions and methodological traditions. Although Dr. Varriale works primarily within the ideational approach associated with Cas Mudde, he emphasizes that populism studies contain legitimate theoretical disagreements. For him, scholars should resist the temptation to transform conceptual preferences into unquestionable certainties: “There is not necessarily one correct answer.” Instead, they should “recognize ambiguity and avoid presenting one interpretation of populism as an absolute truth.” His broader methodological principle is correspondingly straightforward: “The most important thing is to keep an open mind when approaching political science.”
This commitment to scholarly pluralism is closely connected to Dr. Varriale’s understanding of the public role of academics. He argues that “scholars have some responsibility to intervene in public discussions,” particularly because research on politics, society, and democratic life can produce consequences extending far beyond universities. Yet public engagement, in his view, requires clearly defined boundaries. “I am skeptical of academic activism,” he stresses, adding that “engaging with the public should not turn into political advocacy or activism.” Instead, academics should contribute “empirical evidence, theoretical transparency, scientific rigor, and procedural validity,” while maintaining sufficient humility to acknowledge that scholarship remains fallible and that research findings “cannot be treated as absolute truths.”
Dr. Varriale extends this principle to democratic decision-making itself. Scholarship, he argues, can clarify the opportunities and risks associated with populism, distinguish democratic protest from challenges to democratic norms, and communicate evidence to journalists, policymakers, educators, and civil society. But its democratic function should remain informational rather than prescriptive: “Scholars can provide evidence to society, but democratic societies and the demos ultimately make their own political and electoral decisions.” Academia, he concludes, should “facilitate democratic debate without attempting to determine its outcome.”
Across discussions of populism, authoritarianism, digital methods, early-career research, and public engagement, the interview therefore presents scholarly rigor, conceptual humility, and openness to competing interpretations as essential foundations for politically relevant—but politically independent—research.
The interview with Dr. Amedeo Varriale is lightly edited to enhance clarity, readability, and overall flow for publication.
From the Refugee Crisis to the Study of Populism
Refugees arriving by inflatable dinghy boats remain in camps on the island of Lesvos, Greece, on October 5, 2015. Photo: Anjo Kan.
Please introduce yourself, outline your academic journey, and explain how your research interests developed. Why do you believe your area of research is particularly significant in today’s global environment?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: I am a politics graduate of the University of East London, and I completed my PhD in 2024. I am currently a non-resident research fellow at the European Center for Populism Studies, and I am also a research fellow at a center focused on the study of the radical right and populism.
My interest in populism developed over several years. There were three major events between 2015 and 2018 that particularly shaped my research interests: the refugee crisis in 2015, Donald Trump’s election in 2016, and Italy’s 2018 coalition between the League and the Five Star Movement.
The refugee crisis was particularly significant because it created a major divide in public opinion and between political parties, with some advocating for greater openness towards immigration and others strongly opposing it. This contributed to the rise of populist and nationalist parties, particularly on the right.
Trump’s election in 2016 was another important moment. It attracted enormous international attention because the United States, as the leading country of the liberal democratic world, had elected a president whose political language was very different from the traditional language of liberal democracy.
The third event was the most important for me personally. In 2018, for the first time, a key EU member state, Italy, had a government coalition led by fully Eurosceptic populist forces from the right and left: the League and the Five Star Movement.
I eventually studied this coalition during my PhD. I became increasingly interested in understanding what populism was and how it functioned ideologically and rhetorically, particularly because it appeared to me as something very different from mainstream consensus politics on the center-right and center-left.
I believe studying populism today is extremely important. Approximately half of EU member states have a populist party either in government or as the largest opposition party, and this is only within Europe. There are many more populist parties and leaders around the world.
Populism can have a significant impact on political systems. When populists come to power, they do not necessarily abolish democracy altogether, but they can significantly alter democratic institutions. They can erode checks and balances, the rule of law, and minority rights. If we want to understand how liberal democracy is affected, we need to understand why, how, and by whom it is challenged.
Defining Populism Through the Ideational Approach
Do you have your own definition of populism that you use in your research? And do you have a particular conceptual approach that you use? And has your understanding and your definition of populism changed throughout the trajectory of your research?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: I primarily adhere to the ideational school of thought. I am a big fan of the ideational approach to the study of populism, particularly as conceptualized by the prominent Dutch scholar Cas Mudde.
In my PhD thesis, I used Mudde’s definition of populism. Essentially, populism is an ideology that considers society to be ultimately separated into two homogeneous and antagonistic groups: the pure people versus the corrupt elite. It argues that politics should be an expression of the volonté générale, or the general will of the people.
There are three reasons why I think this is a particularly useful approach.
First, it allows us to distinguish between populism and non-populism and therefore establishes relatively clear boundaries. There are two opposites to populism: elitism and pluralism.
Secondly, Mudde’s definition allows for cross-national and cross-regional applicability. There will always be populists to study around the world because anti-elitism and anti-pluralism are recurring features on both sides of the political spectrum.
Third, the ideational approach has a certain versatility. It can be applied at different levels of analysis, including qualitative studies at the mass level. Observing or measuring anti-elitism and people-centrism is possible not only when studying party leaders, but also when studying citizens.
The only aspect of the ideational approach that I am not completely convinced by is Mudde’s argument that populism is thin centered. Unlike thick ideologies such as liberalism, socialism, and communism, populism supposedly offers relatively few specific views on political, institutional, or socioeconomic issues.
I personally believe that populists do share a number of common views. They tend to support a strong majoritarian popular mandate, strong executive power, limitations on the privileges of politicians, and direct democracy. On socioeconomic issues, they can support welfare chauvinism, lower taxation for small and medium-sized businesses, and less or no immigration.
So, I believe populism has a Weltanschauung. While anti-elitism and people-centrism may be its core characteristics, as I argued in my PhD thesis, it also has other important characteristics, such as sovereignism, producerism, reformism, and direct democracy.
My understanding of populism has not radically changed throughout my research. However, I would say that I am now slightly more open to the idea that populism can be thin-centered in some cases.
Populism, Fascism, and the Importance of Conceptual Boundaries
AfD demo with slogan Stop Islamization and counter demonstration of the Left in Luetten Klein in Rostock, Germany on May 14, 2018. AfD, Alternative for Germany, is a right wing political party in Germany. Photo: Shutterstock.
Are there any theoretical debates that you have considered most consequential for the future of the field of populism studies? And what kind of misconceptions do you frequently encounter, both in and out of academia when doing your research?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: One important debate for the future of populism studies may be whether different approaches can eventually be brought together. Rather than asking whether populism is an ideology, strategy, discourse, or style, scholars may increasingly examine how ideas, political agency, discourse and performance, institutions, and citizen reception interact to create populist politics or populist societies. Perhaps in the future, these different approaches can be complementary rather than mutually exclusive. That is, however, speculation.
Regarding misconceptions, I would say there is a recurring blurring of boundaries between populism and fascism, or between populist radical-right actors and the extreme right. This is particularly common in political journalism, but it also occurs to a lesser degree in academia. It is important to distinguish between populist radical-right actors, who are illiberal but not necessarily anti-democratic, and neo-fascist extreme-right actors, who are both illiberal and anti-democratic.
Populism is reformist. It is not revolutionary. It is anti-establishment rather than anti-system. Once it ceases to be anti-establishment and becomes genuinely anti-system, it starts to become something else and potentially something much more authoritarian.
Populists can be skeptical of or opposed to the rule of law and minority rights, but they generally believe in popular sovereignty and electoral democracy. They do not necessarily believe in liberal democracy.
The Italian scholar Marco Tarchi, for example, distinguishes populists and fascists based on their views of the state, markets, sovereignty, the nation, and other important political questions. We therefore need to be careful not to conflate the two.
Measuring Populism Across Different Contexts
Every research agenda can encounter conceptual and methodological challenges. How do you operationalize and how do you measure populism in your own work? Particularly when comparing different systems, different contexts, or different countries, different case studies. So, how can you balance qualitative and quantitative approaches when doing your research?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: Many scholars have developed different ways of measuring populism. For example, Pippa Norris with her Global Party Survey, Kirk Hawkins, Akkerman, Mudde and Zaslove, Kurt Weyland, and many others. Personally, I usually observe and interpret populism through qualitative methods, sometimes comparing one case to another. I use party manifestos, thematic content analysis, and discourse analysis.
During my PhD, however, I developed a methodology to measure the ideological populism of two Italian parties. I identified six populist themes from the literature: anti-elitism, people-centrism, sovereignism, reformism, producerism, and direct democracy. I identified these themes in interviews with politicians and in party manifestos. My method also had a quantitative component because I counted the occurrence of these themes to assess the degree of populism.
I used a gradational approach inspired by Charles Ragin’s fuzzy-set methodology. The values were 0, 0.3, 0.7, and 1, corresponding to not populist, barely populist, considerably populist, and full-blown populist. If none of the themes were present, the result was not populist. One or two themes meant barely populist, three or four meant considerably populist, and five or six meant full-blown populist.
I interviewed ten political figures, five from each party. The themes occurred consistently in the interviews, and the manifesto analysis resulted in the Italian parties being classified as full-blown populist.
I have not, however, measured populism in a strict sense across different countries, political systems, and historical contexts. In most of my work, I have analyzed and interpreted it qualitatively.
I think qualitative and quantitative approaches work best in a complementary way. Quantitative approaches can identify broad patterns across different historical and geographical contexts, while qualitative research can explain the significance, mechanisms, and context behind those patterns.
The Digital Transformation of Populism Research
The study of populism increasingly relies on digital data, social media, and computational methods. What role have these tools played in your own research, and how have they transformed the way scholars investigate contemporary political phenomena?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: In my own research, computational methods and software have essentially played no role so far. I was once a research assistant working on a book where I helped identify themes. Other researchers subsequently used NVivo to locate these themes in tweets, but I was not directly involved in that part. These tools have nevertheless transformed populism studies. Researchers can now examine political communication on a much larger scale and almost instantaneously. They can analyze thousands or millions of posts on platforms such as X, Truth Social, Facebook, and Instagram, as well as online engagement and digital networks. This makes it possible to identify populist themes such as anti-elitism, appeals to the nation, and other forms of political discourse.
Text mining and sentiment analysis can also help researchers measure political discourse and understand relationships between party leaders, parliamentarians, citizens, grassroots activists, and journalists. These tools are particularly useful during major events such as political crises and election campaigns.
There are, however, limitations. Algorithms can contain biases, and social-media users are not necessarily representative of the population or electorate as a whole. There are also ethical and privacy concerns surrounding online data, which can affect research funding or institutional approval, particularly for PhD and postdoctoral research.
Right-Wing and Left-Wing Populism in Italy
Supporters of Five Stars Movement in Naples rally with Italian flag and political symbol of the movement in Napoli, Campania, Italy on May 30, 2018. Photo: Antonio Balasco.
Research can often produce unexpected discoveries. What has been the most surprising finding in your work? Have you encountered evidence that fundamentally challenged your original assumptions or redirected your research idea?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: During my PhD fieldwork, when I interviewed politicians from the League and the Five Star Movement, I was struck by an interesting difference between right-wing and left-wing populism in Italy. The two parties had a similar overall agenda because of their anti-elitist populism, but their Euroscepticism was different.
The Italian populist right criticized Europe and wanted a Europe that did less but better. They envisioned a Europe that would gradually return to something closer to its pre-Maastricht status.
The Italian populist left criticized Europe from a different perspective. Their Euroscepticism was based more on the idea that the EU should do more but better, particularly regarding fiscal and environmental policy integration.
Overall, both populist right-wing and left-wing actors tended to favor reforming the EU from within rather than leaving it altogether.
The left’s Euroscepticism was aimed more at international corporate elites because of their economic power and influence over sovereign states. Right-wing Euroscepticism was aimed more at national and international liberal-progressive elites because of their positions on immigration, globalization, and popular sovereignty.
Of course, there are also areas where right and left populism overlap. I would not say these findings fundamentally challenged my original assumptions or redirected my research agenda, but they did reveal some interesting differences between right- and left-wing populism.
Conducting Research in Polarized Political Environments
Populism can frequently involve politically polarized environments, disinformation campaigns, and contested narratives. Have these dynamics affected your ability to collect data, access reliable sources or to conduct objective research? And how do you navigate politically sensitive topics while maintaining scholarly rigor?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: I would not say these dynamics have significantly affected my ability to collect data, access reliable sources, or conduct objective research. However, they can certainly make research on populism more daunting.
Accessibility, accuracy, and reliability can be influenced by polarization, disinformation, and competing narratives. The best way for scholars to address this is to distinguish between sources that provide verifiable evidence, those that provide political or scholarly opinions, and subjective or partisan journalism.
Whenever possible, researchers should collect their own data through fieldwork. If that is not possible, primary sources, peer-reviewed academic sources, and respected independent organizations can be useful. Using multiple sources and avoiding a predetermined ideological perspective can increase the objectivity and reliability of research.
In populism studies, it is also normal to encounter different approaches and conclusions. There are competing ideational, sociocultural, and political-strategic approaches to populism.
There is not necessarily one correct answer. Scholars need to recognize ambiguity and avoid presenting one interpretation of populism as an absolute truth. The most important thing is to keep an open mind when approaching political science.
Research Beyond Academic Publication
Looking beyond academic publication, what impact would you ideally like your research to have? How can scholarly work contribute to addressing democratic challenges associated with populism while avoiding becoming politicized itself?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: Scholars have some responsibility to intervene in public discussions. Research often deals with questions concerning society and democratic life, and those findings can have real-life consequences for communities.
That said, I am skeptical of academic activism. Engaging with the public should not turn into political advocacy or activism. Academics should try to be as objective as possible and contribute empirical evidence, theoretical transparency, scientific rigor, and procedural validity. They should also have the humility to recognize that their research is not flawless and that findings cannot be treated as absolute truths.
Communicating academic findings to the public, policymakers, politicians, and journalists can be difficult. Academic language needs to be simplified for wider audiences and made reader friendly. Findings should also be summarized clearly and concisely, particularly for journalists and policymakers. There should be concrete examples, and unnecessary jargon should be avoided. Finally, academics should be transparent about the limitations and weaknesses of their research frameworks and methodology.
The Importance of Academic Networks
So, I’m going to shift gears a little bit for my next question. And I would like to ask you about international collaboration. Because contemporary research increasingly involves collaboration with other researchers, how has cooperation with other scholars, with other academic networks and initiatives, such as the ECPS Early Career Researchers Network, influenced your research, your professional development, and your intellectual outlook?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: I have not directly used the ECPS Early Career Researchers Network yet, but I have had the opportunity to write and publish different articles with ECPS. Earlier this year, I participated in the ECPS Virtual Workshop Series, We, the People and the Future of Democracy: An Interdisciplinary Approach. I served as a discussant for several sessions and as a moderator or chair for one. These workshops gave me the opportunity to engage with scholars who are more experienced than me, and I learned a great deal simply by listening to them. Preparing to act as a discussant also expanded my knowledge and research skills because I had to engage closely with other scholars’ work and prepare meaningful discussion points.
I also participated in a workshop on the New Right in Copenhagen, where I presented research on Giorgia Meloni’s Brothers of Italy.
These experiences allowed me to meet people with similar interests and career objectives. Although I have not yet co-authored anything through these networks, I now have professional contacts and people I can approach for opinions, advice, or potential academic collaboration. I also really value meeting people from different countries, age groups, and areas of expertise.
The Role of Research in Democratic Decision-Making
Israelis protest in Tel Aviv against Netanyahu’s Judicial Coup in Israel. Photo: Avivi Aharon.
What impact would you ideally like your research to have? How could scholarly work contribute to addressing democratic challenges associated with populism while avoiding becoming politicized itself?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: Looking beyond academic publication, I would like my research to contribute by better informing the public about the opportunities and threats associated with populism. I would like citizens to understand what they are likely to get in terms of policymaking and institutional reforms when they vote for a populist party or leader.
I think it is a moral duty to explain how populism affects liberal democracy, not only in terms of institutions but also political representation and public debate. Once citizens are informed, however, they should be left alone to decide who they want to vote for.
Research can also be useful to journalists, educators, policymakers, and civil society organizations. It can help these groups distinguish between legitimate and spontaneous forms of democratic protest and more serious challenges to democratic norms. It can also identify ways democratic institutions can respond to those challenges while addressing everyday concerns without abandoning the rule of law and political pluralism.
To avoid excessive politicization, I think scholarship should do four things: use methodology transparently; present competing interpretations fairly; acknowledge uncertainty and new evidence that contradicts one’s own argument; and be honest about the limitations and weaknesses of research.
Scholars can provide evidence to society, but democratic societies and the demos ultimately make their own political and electoral decisions. If academics dislike populists, that does not mean they should demonize citizens who support them. Academia should facilitate democratic debate without attempting to determine its outcome.
Challenges Facing Early-Career Researchers
Next, I would like to talk about career obstacles. What has been the greatest personal or professional challenge that you may have faced? Particularly as an early career scholar, and what has enabled you to overcome these obstacles?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: One of the biggest challenges during my PhD was having to restructure and rewrite a large part of my thesis. Fortunately, I managed to do so successfully, and I was actually happier with the second version of my thesis than the original. My examiners gave me valuable feedback, particularly on how to connect my theoretical framework to the existing literature.
Another challenge has been finding the right postdoctoral position. Populism studies is a very niche subfield of political science, so there are not as many postdoctoral positions as one might expect, and the ones that are available are extremely competitive. This can be particularly challenging for someone who cannot relocate anywhere in the world for personal reasons.
It can be frustrating, but it is important not to give in to that frustration. Continue studying, continue reading other people’s work, continue publishing, get up early every morning, and keep trying.
The Rewards of Academic Research
I want to ask you about what has felt rewarding in your research journey, but also if there is anything that you would have approached differently.
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: The most rewarding aspect has undoubtedly been being published and seeing a well-presented, well-written, and aesthetically pleasing article with my name on it published in an important journal or magazine. This makes me proud, but it also makes my parents, friends, family, and partner proud.
A couple of weeks ago, I received a hard copy of a policy journal containing one of my articles, and it was a very fulfilling experience. It made me realize that all the hard work had served a purpose and, in a complex and not immediately noticeable way, contributed to knowledge.
The pursuit of truth is a noble aim. It is also rewarding to contribute to common knowledge and, indirectly, to society, by producing in-depth work that helps explain how political systems function.
Intellectual Influences on the Study of Populism
Are there any particular scholars, books, experiences, or even unexpected sources of inspiration that have fundamentally shaped your thinking and your research?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: Certainly. I have several favorite authors and books that have contributed to my intellectual development. When I first started studying populism at a higher level during my PhD, I encountered the work of Cas Mudde and many other scholars who examined populism primarily from an ideological and qualitative perspective. I would particularly recommend Mudde’s books to young scholars entering the field. His writing is conceptually sophisticated without being unnecessarily difficult to understand.
I would also recommend the British scholar Paul Taggart and his seminal book Populism, which helped me understand the origins of populism, including its development in the late nineteenth-century United States with the People’s Party and in Russia with the Narodniks.
I am also a great admirer of Marco Tarchi because he comparatively analyses populism and the fascist extreme right.
Another scholar I would recommend is Benjamin Moffitt. His book Populism examines similarities and differences between populism and other ideologies, including liberalism, socialism, and nationalism.
These scholars have been fundamental to my intellectual development, and I think it is difficult to study populism without becoming familiar with their work.
Advice for the Next Generation of Political Scientists
If there are any skills that you believe young political scientists need in order to thrive. And what advice do you offer to the next generation of scholars entering the field, especially regarding to the fact that universities are becoming increasingly internationalized, and research has become more competitive than it has ever been before?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: I think computational methods and the ability to work with large amounts of digital data are increasingly important. Learning how to use tools such as NVivo and RStudio, as well as platforms such as MTurk, can be valuable. I myself need to develop these skills further.
Another important skill is teaching experience. It is useful to gain teaching experience early, preferably during the PhD, because it can make a significant difference to your CV and can be valuable when universities are hiring postdoctoral researchers.
But the most important piece of advice I can give is very simple: read, read, and read. Read academic books, political journalism, history, sociology, and even things that are completely unrelated to your research, such as novels and classical literature. Reading widely allows you to develop intellectual connections beyond your immediate field.
Ultimately, an academic needs to be well-read.
The Future of Populism Studies
Populism and political marketing: An illustration of how populist rhetoric is often employed as a strategic tool to swiftly gain voter support. Illustration: Jakub Jirsak.
Looking ahead, where do you see populism studies evolving over the next decade? Which research questions or neglected areas deserve far greater scholarly attention than they currently receive?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: I think it is reasonable to speculate that populism studies may become increasingly connected with research on authoritarianism. Populism is often described as democratic or even hyper-democratic to the point of becoming illiberal. We have seen populists moderate themselves after entering government, but we have also seen political actors that began as populists evolve into something different.
I am thinking particularly about developments such as Donald Trump’s second term, the AfD, and National Future in Italy, which have advanced policies that are considerably more radical or extreme than those of many populists of ten or twenty years ago.
One example is remigration. This concept does not simply refer to returning illegal immigrants. It can also involve legal immigrants and second-generation citizens who are considered insufficiently integrated. That goes beyond populism and raises questions about authoritarianism and democratic norms.
I therefore think future research should examine more carefully where the boundary lies between populism and extreme-right authoritarianism, particularly in terms of policymaking. This area has been somewhat neglected. Academia has not always provided clear ideational distinctions between neo-populism, neo-fascism, and reactionary right-wing authoritarianism. Scholars such as Marco Tarchi and Robert Paxton have made important contributions to distinguishing these concepts, although in different contexts.
Sometimes parties are described as populist when they are actually neo-fascist or extreme right. In those cases, calling them populist can obscure important distinctions. The opposite can also happen. I think we should try to call political phenomena by their appropriate names. Of course, this can be difficult in political science, and particularly in political journalism, where terminology is often used inconsistently.
A Large-Scale Taxonomy of Populist Parties
If resources, time, and institutional constraints were no obstacle for you, what research project would you most like to pursue? More broadly, what do you hope will ultimately be the lasting contribution of your work to both scholarship and to public understanding?
Dr. Amedeo Varriale: If time and resources allowed me, I would like to undertake a large-scale project with the ultimate aim of developing a taxonomy of populist parties based on their relationship with liberal democracy, their conceptualization of anti-elitism, and their views on important aspects of the political system, including the state, economy, and markets.
This has been done before to some extent. Margaret Canovan conducted similar work in the 1980s and 1990s, and Mudde did something similar in his 2007 book Populist Radical Right Parties in Europe. However, these classifications are now somewhat outdated.
There may therefore be a gap in the literature for a new taxonomy. If I pursue a postdoctoral project in the future, this is likely to be the kind of proposal I would put forward.
I would like to use interviews as a primary methodology, as I did during my PhD, and speak with populist leaders in countries such as Argentina, Britain, Italy, and Poland, potentially expanding the research beyond Europe.
I also think it would be useful to move beyond the simple division between right-wing and left-wing populism. There are different subgroups, including neoliberal or centrist populists on the right and different varieties of socialist populism on the left. Right and left can be treated as broad categories, but there are more detailed distinctions between populists in Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Americas in terms of their beliefs and overall worldviews.
I would hope that developing these kinds of distinctions could become one of the lasting contributions of my research, alongside my work distinguishing between neo-populism and neo-fascism.
The public also needs to understand that populism is not necessarily undemocratic or anti-democratic. It can give a voice to silent majorities or minorities in political systems that are authoritarian or competitively authoritarian.
At the same time, populism can obstruct the rule of law and minority rights in liberal democracies. It can therefore have different effects depending on the political context.
More research needs to be produced and communicated not only within academic circles but also through the media, which plays an important role in shaping public narratives. People need to understand the good, the bad, and the ugly sides of populism.
If I could write a book that brought together all of these aspects, I think that would be a lasting contribution that I would be proud of for many years.
In this ECPS interview, Associate Professor Nick Beauchamp of Northeastern University examines the evolving relationship between MAGA, democratic socialism, political communication, and the institutional structure of American politics. Assoc. Prof. Beauchamp argues that MAGA’s dominance of the Republican Party should not be confused with uniform ideological agreement among Republican voters, emphasizing that “there’s a difference between how much the beliefs have spread and how much the ideology or the party has taken over.” He suggests that democratic socialism could exert comparable national influence even without achieving majority support, noting that a progressive or DSA-aligned faction could still have “similar effects nationally.” The interview also explores media selection, institutional trust, polarization, AI-driven political persuasion, and the persistence of anti-establishment politics.
As the United States approaches the November 3 midterm elections, the political landscape is defined by an unusually narrow congressional balance, weak public evaluations of the economy, declining approval of President Donald Trump, and an election increasingly interpreted through attitudes toward Trump himself. At the same time, MAGA has become deeply embedded in the Republican Party, while Democrats remain divided over how far an economically populist and democratic-socialist agenda should shape their response to Trumpism. Against this backdrop of personalized politics, ideological polarization, institutional conflict, and an increasingly fragmented information environment, the relationship between insurgent movements and the established two-party system has become especially consequential.
In this interview with the European Center for Populism Studies (ECPS), Associate Professor Nick Beauchamp of Northeastern University’s Department of Political Science and Network Science Institute offers a structural interpretation of the apparent asymmetry between MAGA’s transformation of the Republican Party and democratic socialism’s more contested position within the Democratic coalition. Rather than treating MAGA as equivalent to the Republican electorate as a whole, Assoc. Prof. Beauchamp stresses that “there’s the MAGA further-right faction and then the center-right faction. Those two things still exist.” He consequently distinguishes between the diffusion of ideological beliefs among voters and the institutional capture of a political party: “there’s a difference between how much the beliefs have spread and how much the ideology or the party has taken over.”
That distinction underpins one of the interview’s most consequential observations. Assoc. Prof. Beauchamp argues that democratic socialism does not necessarily have to become nationally majoritarian in order to acquire transformative political influence. Even if the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) or the broader progressive left were unable to move substantially beyond their current “core of urban, educated, young, left-leaning liberals,” he maintains that “they could still have similar effects nationally.” There is also, he adds, a possible route toward a broader populist coalition appealing to “economically distressed rural or suburban voters,” although such expansion is “not necessary for having a MAGA-sized effect.”
More broadly, Assoc. Prof. Beauchamp situates both MAGA and democratic socialism within the institutional architecture of American politics. Because the presidential and first-past-the-post systems sustain two large parties, he argues, ideological movements operate as factions competing for control within them. Political outcomes therefore depend not only on ideological appeal but also on contingency: “Trump almost lost the primary in 2016, and Sanders almost won the primary in 2016.” Had those outcomes shifted, he observes, “we’d be living in a very different world.”
The interview thus moves beyond a simple comparison of left- and right-wing populism to examine how factional capture, institutional structure, media selection, political communication, AI-driven personalization, and anti-establishment sentiment may shape the next phase of American democracy.
Here is our interview with Associate Professor Nick Beauchamp, edited lightly to enhance clarity, readability, and overall flow for publication.
Trump’s Unpopularity Adds to Republican Midterm Problems
Demonstrators at The People’s March, an evolution of the Women’s March, NYC, January 18, 2025. A protester holds a sign reading “Presidents Are Not Kings.” Photo: Erin Alexis Randolph.
Professor Beauchamp, welcome! Let me begin with the broader meaning of the November 3 midterm elections:The November 3 midterms are taking place with an exceptionally narrow congressional balance, weak evaluations of the economy, and Donald Trump remaining unusually central to an election in which he is not himself on the ballot. Should we understand this primarily as a conventional midterm judgment on an incumbent administration, or as a broader referendum on Trumpism as a governing project and on the MAGA transformation of the Republican Party?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: It’s a little bit of both. In general, based on historical patterns, you would expect the incumbent party to lose ground simply because it’s a midterm election. When you add the poor state of the economy, particularly inflation, you would expect even greater difficulties for the incumbent party.
Then there is Trump’s own unpopularity, reflected in his low approval rating, which may or may not be separate from his role as an ideological figure within the MAGA movement.
So, whether we can identify an additional effect specifically attributable to Trumpism or MAGA, beyond all these other factors, is difficult to say. Given the broader circumstances, we would already expect the incumbent party to be struggling in a midterm election.
MAGA Is a Faction—but It Now Controls the Party
The Republican Party has changed markedly from the Reagan-era combination of free trade, limited government, and internationalist conservatism toward economic nationalism, immigration restriction, cultural conservatism, and a stronger conception of executive power. From your perspective as a scholar of ideology and political text, do you now see MAGA as one faction among several inside the Republican Party, or as the dominant ideological grammar through which most Republican candidates are compelled to communicate?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: Those two things don’t have to be incompatible; it can be both. A theme I’ll probably return to is that MAGA is a faction within the Republican Party. There are two broad factions within the party, the farther right and the center right, and similarly, there are two factions within the Democratic Party, the farther left and the center left.
At the moment, the Republican Party apparatus has shifted rightward because the farther-right faction represented by Trump has taken over, beginning with the 2016 primary. But there are still other factions within the Republican Party that continue to operate, even if they are, as you were saying, compelled to use the dominant grammar of the faction that now controls the party.
Trumpism and Trump Are Very Well Fused
Jake Angeli or QAnon Shaman was among those who participated in the riots initiated by former US President Donald Trump at the Capitol, Washington D.C. on January 6, 2021. Photo: Johnny Silvercloud
The 2026 campaign has become highly personalized around Trump, with loyalty to him functioning as an important criterion of Republican identity. How should we analytically distinguish Trumpism as an ideology from Trumpism as a leader-centered political relationship? If the presidency, the movement, the party, and the leader increasingly become rhetorically fused, does this change the way voters process political information and partisan identity?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: That’s a hard question. The sense in which they are potentially more readily fused than some combinations of leader and ideology is that leaders and ideology, no matter what your ideology, tend to be fused together in various ways. Regardless of the ideology, many voters take their cues from leaders under any circumstance.
The sense in which it is more fused for the current Republican Party is that the ideology itself tends to be more authoritarian in its structure and therefore has a much more directly and explicitly privileged role for the leader. So, in that sense, the ideology and the leader are naturally compatible with each other, in the way that maybe there’s a little bit of tension between a strong leader and the more traditional liberal individualist ideology.
So, they’re definitely very well fused, and in part that’s just due to the compatibility between the two of them at this particular moment.
Left and Right Populism Both Emphasize Enemies
Right-wing populism under Trump often constructs several antagonisms simultaneously: ordinary Americans against elites, the nation against immigrants or cultural outsiders, and the elected president against institutions that constrain him. In your work on political language and stance detection, how important is this combination of moral judgment, identity, and blame in making populist messages especially effective?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: Maybe the answer is similar, in the sense that both left and right populism, in particular, tend to put a pretty strong emphasis on enemies. Often, the enemies are different versions of the elite, whether the elite are the rich or the cultural elite. Certainly, during a period of anti-establishment fervor right now, both can agree that the establishment, although they disagree about what the establishment is, is a locus for the enemy.
So, in a sense, that is one of the symmetries between the further left and the further right. I’m not somebody who believes that there are lots of symmetries between these two sides, but that’s certainly, structurally, one of these things.
It’s particularly, again, compatible with far-right populism because, along with authoritarianism, you tend to have the opposites—the enemy—that are structurally playing an important role in these things. So, yes, I’d say that having a distinct enemy, or indeed many different enemies, is really constitutive of the ideology and thus feeds into the engine of the far right in the US.
Loss of Institutional Trust Depends on What Institutions Do
The current debate over American democratic backsliding centers on executive power, attacks on institutional constraints, media freedom, immigration enforcement, political retaliation, and the legitimacy of opposition. But democratic erosion also depends on how citizens interpret those developments. To what extent is the durability of democratic norms now a problem of political communication—specifically, whether voters perceive courts, election officials, journalists, universities, and civil servants as legitimate referees or merely as partisan actors?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: That’s a tricky question. The literature on faith in democratic institutions is often portrayed as a matter of communication—showing that these institutions are unbiased, procedural rather than personal, and have these other characteristics. Often, that’s portrayed, as your question was implying, as a task of political communication.
Maybe I’m just an optimist. But my sense, at least in the US context, is that the loss of faith in institutions is driven primarily by what those institutions do, not by how they’re packaged. So, when the courts or the Department of Justice are seen to be operating in a fairly methodical and law-oriented way, it’s very hard to re-describe all of that as unjust. Conversely, when they’re acting in an unjust or personalized way, it’s hard to re-describe that as just.
Again, this is maybe just me being an optimist, but the fundamental problem with loss of faith in democratic institutions, at least maybe just on the left side, is due to how they’re actually operating, not a matter of communication. That doesn’t change the fact that there are other sources of loss of faith in democratic institutions, such as believing that there’s widespread fraud in mail-in voting that has no particular grounding in the truth and thus must be driven by political communication. Maybe there is a bit of an asymmetry there between the two.
A Democratic Congress Would Intensify Confrontation
If Democrats were to secure majorities in both the House and the Senate after the midterms, how consequential could that be for the remainder of Trump’s presidency? Beyond blocking legislation, could a Democratic Congress meaningfully challenge Trumpism through oversight, investigations, subpoena power, appropriations, confirmation politics, and the defense of institutional autonomy? Or, given the intensity of partisan polarization and the growing tendency to portray institutional checks as illegitimate obstruction, might divided government simply shift the conflict from electoral competition toward an even more confrontational struggle between Congress and the executive?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: It certainly will shift the emphasis to an even more confrontational struggle. If the Democrats take the House in particular, surely there will be a bunch of investigations. If they take the Senate, there will be larger fights about confirmations.
Whether either of those things has direct effects on policies will depend on the bills they’re trying to put through. Trump, as we know, has not had a particularly strong emphasis on legislating. It’s part of their philosophy of executive power, and they much prefer to do things through executive orders and other direct effects. So, the ability of Democrats to block bills might not change things that much, but their ability to hold hearings, in particular, will give them an opportunity to raise the salience of all issues and to have an ongoing narrative.
The big challenge for them in that case will just be picking and choosing, because there are literally hundreds of different things that they could choose to investigate or prosecute, and there’s probably a dozen different reasons that they could justify at least having an impeachment vote.
So, the challenge for them, from a political communication perspective, from a PR perspective, is going to be: how do they sequence these things to keep the attention up? That’s not an easy task. As a media consultant or political consultant, I have no idea how they’re gonna do it, but, again, strategically, if they’re smart, they’ll figure out a way to organize the television narrative to keep things moving along for the next two years. That will certainly lead to much more confrontation if they’re successful in that strategy.
What Media Make Salient Has Large Political Effects
Your research shows that media bias can operate not only through partisan wording but through the strategic inclusion or omission of events, even in outlets with strong norms of objectivity. In the highly polarized 2026 campaign, is the more consequential form of media influence often not what outlets say, but which facts, actors, conflicts, or consequences they choose to make visible—or invisible—to their audiences?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: That’s been a perspective I’ve been exploring and testing in research for a number of years now, because there are all these norms, particularly in the major media, about non-bias and so forth. That shapes the way they describe what they’re talking about. But there are very few norms about what they choose to talk about or not, although people try to bring this up occasionally. As a result, they’re fairly unconstrained in what they choose to focus on.
In many ways, this has more latitude in intra-party disagreements. So, the New York Times or other arguably liberal media outlets can choose which things to report on, and those choices can have strong effects on intra-Democratic, intra-left disagreements. If they choose to focus, or if the party apparatus chooses to focus a lot, on what a particular YouTuber has been saying, whether various candidates have an opinion about this YouTuber, or, most recently in the Boston Globe, what happened in a very small bar in western Massachusetts, they might not be directly biased in terms of what they’re saying about it. But the fact that they focus on these particular things has strong effects on these intra-party arguments.
Similarly, they talk more or less about what’s going on in Gaza, or they talk more or less about Trump’s corruption. Or, to choose another example from the headlines just today, if Barry Weiss, who’s taken over the long-running 60 Minutes show, decides not so much to change the tone of the show but to change who’s being interviewed by the show, that, too, has lots of downstream effects on where the attention of viewers is, what kind of judgments they’re making, and what things they consider salient or not for the upcoming elections.
So, much more than changes in their language, it’s changes in what they’re choosing to report on. Those do have large effects, particularly in the primary season for the general election now and again comes around.
Compartmentalized News Is Not Necessarily a Problem
If news organizations on the left and right systematically emphasize different events, different moral stakes, and different political actors, are American voters effectively inhabiting parallel campaign realities? And does this make it harder for elections to function as shared democratic judgments, because citizens may no longer be evaluating the same set of political facts?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: This is where the normative questions diverge from the descriptive questions. Most of the research I’ve done has been empirical and quantitative, looking at these selections and the effects of the selections. Then there’s a normative question: what do we think about that? What should be done about that? That one is more of a subjective perspective.
My perspective is that the selection effects are, in some ways, inevitable—you have to choose, because there’s a finite amount of space and a finite amount of time to report on things. The main problem is not so much the choice, but that the choices themselves are hidden from the viewers. They’re not made explicit as part of the editorial or reporting process.
So, for me, it may not be a problem if there’s a bunch of compartmentalized news organizations that have different foci, as long as the news consumers understand how that works and make their choices in an informed way. This is where I diverge a little bit from some of the people in the polarization world who think that every news organization should cover all the articles in an equally unbiased way.
I’m very cognizant of the fact that this marketplace of ideas does not necessarily work very well in practice, but it still seems the best of a number of incomplete or insufficient solutions here. So, yes, there is this tendency towards bubbles, as they call it, but it’s better to be transparent about the bubbles than to try to erase them altogether.
Authoritarian Ideology Pairs Leaders with Enemies
Immigration remains one of the most durable MAGA issues, combining border control, sovereignty, crime, demographic anxiety, and national identity. From the standpoint of political communication, why is the language of “invasion,” threat, or loss of control so effective? Does anti-immigration politics work primarily because of policy concerns, or because it provides a morally and emotionally simplified narrative that links cultural change to political grievance?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: This gets back to your earlier point about having enemies. We know that, structurally, part of authoritarian ideology is to have an authority figure that you revere and, on the opposite side, a series of enemies that are challenging the structure or have already ruined the structure that needs to be reclaimed from them.
The anti-immigration politics of Trump, in particular, fits into that structure pretty well. But structurally, it doesn’t have to be anti-immigration. It can, in fact, be trans people right now, and it has historically been Black people and various other minority groups and so forth. All of those have slightly different ways of framing the enemy problem, but structurally, they’re similar.
Immigration is certainly well suited to it, and we see that in quite a lot of far-right European parties and so forth. But there’s nothing necessarily about immigration per se that doesn’t function structurally similarly to other out-groups like trans people, Black people, and other minority groups that are threatening the power structure that authoritarians prefer.
Economic Grievances May Be More Fixable Than Identity-Based Enemies
A homeless US Army veteran sits on a street corner in Mesa, Arizona, holding a sign asking for help because he is hungry. Photo: Vicki Been / Dreamstime.
The current US landscape contains two different populist projects. MAGA tends to define “the people” in national-cultural terms against elites, immigrants, globalists, and liberal institutions, while democratic-socialist actors tend to define “the people” socioeconomically—as workers, renters, debtors, and consumers confronting billionaires, corporations, and concentrated wealth. From your perspective, how different are these two populisms in their communicative structure, emotional appeal, and capacity to build durable coalitions?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: That again gets back to the enemy structure, where both of them have things that they’re opposing, both of them have things that they consider to be responsible for the problems here. But, of course, they target different things.
In terms of their capacity to build durable coalitions, both of them, obviously, historically, are quite durable as ideologies, in part because neither of them manages to solve the purported problem that they point to.
Going further in terms of their capacities, one would have to get into the actual truth of the matter: whether a series of policies that progressively restrict immigrants, liberal institutions, and so forth would feed back on itself and produce a more—Jonathan Bein—secure, happy, and wealthy world, or whether that sequence of policy pursuits would, in fact, work counter to that.
Similarly, you would have to answer whether an ideology that’s directed towards supporting debtors and against billionaires would produce a better or wealthier society. My version is that I tend to lean towards the latter, and so, in a sense, one might be more durable than the other. Although perhaps it’s not durable in the sense that one of these sets of things—the economic ones—are potentially fixable, whereas the existence of immigrants, liberal institutions, minority groups, and so forth is not something that is likely to be fixed, absent some extreme set of policies.
MAGA and Democratic Socialism Are Both Party Factions
One of the most striking asymmetries of the current party system is that MAGA has become a governing project and a dominant force inside the Republican Party, whereas democratic socialism remains influential but contested within a much broader Democratic coalition. Is this principally an organizational difference, a media and communication difference, or a difference in how effectively each movement has translated grievance into a simple and emotionally resonant political identity?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: As with all your questions, it’s a little bit of all these things. What I’m coming back to repeatedly is that these are both factions within these parties. Because of our presidential system, because of our first-past-the-post, winner-take-all electoral system, we have two parties, and so the structure, essentially, of our political system is a hierarchical tree, where you have two parties here. Then, within each of the parties, you have the more extreme and the more centrist faction, and all those factions continue to exist, even with Trump and so forth.
The importance of that is to be cognizant of how important accidents and contingency are. Like, Trump almost lost the primary in 2016, and Sanders almost won the primary in 2016. If either of those things had happened, we’d be living in a very different world, because a different faction would have taken over each of those parties under each of those circumstances.
And we’d have a world in which we’d be talking about Sandersism or whatever; we’d be talking about that versus center-right Republicans. Had political opinion shifted by only 10 points or so in these primaries 10 years ago, maybe the current faction that’s dominating in the Democratic Party, which is the center-left faction, might be more durable than the center-right faction was. The center-right faction obviously had lots of concentrated wealth, but didn’t have quite as much cultural clout, whereas the Democratic faction that currently runs the party has both a lot of wealth and a lot of cultural capital.
So, it may be that we’ll see this recurrent pairing between the furthest, most extreme faction on the right and the centrist faction on the left. But again, a lot of this really depends on the contingency of national presidential politics and who runs and who wins in a couple of years.
The Far Left Could Have a MAGA-Sized Effect Without Majority Support
Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez at the “Bernie Is Back” political rally in Queensbridge Park, Queens, New York, on October 19, 2019. Photo: Aleksandr Dyskin / Dreamstime.
The democratic-socialist current has gained visibility through Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, DSA-backed candidates, and a younger activist constituency, but its strongest support remains concentrated in metropolitan areas and particular primary electorates. Do you see democratic socialism developing into a genuinely national current inside the Democratic Party, or is its ideological and geographic appeal still too uneven to reshape the party in the way MAGA reshaped the GOP?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: Maybe there, too, I’d push back a little bit on the degree to which MAGA has reshaped the GOP. It certainly reshaped the GOP in the sense of the party itself, the candidates, and what the candidates are doing. But it’s still the case that, at least among voters, and probably even among the actual representatives, if they were able to honestly respond to surveys or questions, there’s the MAGA further-right faction and then the center-right faction. Those two things still exist.
By analogy, you could have very much the same thing happening on the left, where the progressive or maybe DSA faction, if that’s what it ends up being called, wins the primaries, takes over the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party wins the presidency, and takes over the reins of the government. Structurally, you’d have something very similar, where it would seem that the far left has become dominant. But in terms of the actual opinions of the actual people, it would be analogous to what’s happened with MAGA, where, if you actually look at the surveys that ask people what their views are, probably only half of Republicans and therefore only maybe 1/6 or so of the actual country shares these core, strong far-right beliefs.
So, there’s a difference between how much the beliefs have spread and how much the ideology or the party has taken over. In that sense, even if the DSA couldn’t, or the far left couldn’t, extend beyond their core of urban, educated, young, left-leaning liberals, they could still have similar effects nationally.
That said, there’s also a pathway towards an even broader populist movement where this is what they want, where they appeal to economically distressed rural or suburban voters that aren’t the traditional far left of the Democratic Party. That’s certainly possible, but it’s not necessary for having a MAGA-sized effect.
People Can Still Learn in a Polarized World
Your work on online political conversations found that people often engage across wide ideological divides and that negative or unpleasant exchanges can sustain participation, while extended interaction can sometimes bridge differences rather than simply reinforce information bubbles. Does that finding still give grounds for optimism in the current environment, or have social-media incentives become so dominated by outrage, identity signaling, and algorithmic amplification that cross-partisan argument now more often deepens polarization than reduces it?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: The nuance to emphasize there, in terms of my own research, is that I’ve looked at long-term changes in opinion—radicalization, shifts in people’s positions, or at least how they talk on social media. But one of the things we’ve tended to find is that, while there can be large shifts over time, these tend to occur across smaller differences rather than across the partisan gap between the two sides.
You can still have long-term shifts, long-term changes, long-term evolution, and, if you want to be optimistic, long-term learning, without necessarily having this huge conversation across gigantic political divides. There’s this tendency to lose faith in the deliberative system because the far left and the far right can’t talk to each other, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case for people to move, change, and learn more as they go along.
Maybe across the exact middle, there’s going to be a problem because, as people become more polarized or learn more about politics, that gap is large. But at the same time, what we’ve learned is that this unidimensional ideological spectrum doesn’t really capture the way actual people’s opinions work. Actual moderates, or even liberals or conservatives, have a mixture of different policy opinions. As a result, you can have people talking to people about specific policies where they don’t necessarily disagree very much, even across apparently wide divides in their overall voting politics.
So, all of this is, in some ways, a more optimistic view that, even in a heavily polarized world, you can still have changes in people’s views and learning, and become more knowledgeable about politics through these smaller, more gradual changes in conversations.
AI Is Not Fundamentally Different from Existing Campaign Practices
AI, artificial intelligence, and the concept of fake news, misinformation, and disinformation: A man uses his smartphone displaying the red text “Fake News,” surrounded by related keywords. Photo: Dreamstime.
Your recent work on personalized large language models shows how systems can adapt to users’ histories, preferences, and evolving beliefs. In an electoral context, does this create the possibility of a qualitatively new form of political persuasion—where campaigns no longer send one message to millions of voters but generate millions of individually tailored messages, each calibrated to a person’s ideological priors, emotional triggers, and political history? Can AI make political persuasion radically more personalized?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: Now we’ve moved on to the AI side of things. Often, my perspective there is that, despite what the discourse says, at least at the moment, what AI is doing is not fundamentally different from what people are already doing.
The move towards personalized persuasion, micro-targeting, and messaging has been happening in politics for decades now. The dream has always been that, even if the blanket television advertisement doesn’t have much of an effect, maybe if we find just the right message for just the right people by measuring their views very precisely and delivering just the right thing to each door, we can get much more leverage than with these blanket approaches.
In my reading of the research and the evidence, this may be true in a laboratory setting, but in the real world, the overall effects are fairly small in terms of persuasion. The additional effects of personalized persuasion are even smaller; they’re very uncertain outside of the laboratory, even inside the laboratory.
There’s an empirical limit on just how well this can work, due to the inherent noisiness of the human mind. Then the question is: if we have the ability to ramp this up through AI, where we can call up each individual person and have a long conversation with each of them on the telephone, with an AI on the other side, can we get some miraculous additional boost?
The evidence we already have suggests that there are inherent limitations on just how far that can go and that, even though it can probably increase the amount of harassment we all get from campaigns, it might not really change the discourse, particularly when both sides have the capacity to use the same tools.
Personalized Messages Are Not Necessarily Bad for Accountability
If AI-generated political communication becomes increasingly personalized, what happens to democratic accountability? A candidate might present one version of immigration, another of taxation, and another of foreign policy to different voters without those messages ever entering a common public space. Could AI therefore move campaigning from micro-targeting toward something closer to individualized ideological worlds—and make it harder for journalists, opponents, or voters to hold politicians accountable for a coherent public position?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: That, too, is a similar type of question, where we’ve had a lot of these effects already operating before AI. Obviously, within the world of social media studies, there has been a huge amount of attention to bubbles. This is not necessarily about political campaigns, or just about algorithms or other types of things where everybody’s getting their own world, as it were.
What the research suggests is that, again, here too, there are inherent limitations on this: the idea that somebody would be completely in a bubble and unaware of all the other things going on out there just is not the way social media or human interactions actually work.
They could certainly try to make it more targeted to emphasize certain things that matter to each voter. But I don’t think that would necessarily entail voters losing knowledge about other things outside of their world. Without that loss, it’s not necessarily normatively bad if individuals learn more about the things they care more about.
So, again, this is AI aside, just saying that it’s not necessarily the case that personalized messages or campaigns are bad, because maybe a climate-sensitive moderate who’s trying to choose between Democrats and Republicans could really benefit from learning more about the climate policies of the two candidates. As long as that doesn’t exclude their knowledge of the other things, it’s not necessarily bad for democratic accountability, public knowledge, voting, or that sort of thing.
Isolationism Ends When American Dominance Is Challenged
The Iran war has exposed a significant tension within Trumpism: one strand of MAGA rejects “endless wars,” another favors overwhelming force when US power or prestige is challenged, while traditional Republican hawks remain influential. Does this suggest that “America First” is less a coherent foreign-policy doctrine than a flexible political narrative? And from a communication perspective, how can the same movement successfully frame both non-interventionism and military escalation as expressions of the same nationalist principle? How should we understand the tension between “America First” and military intervention?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: I don’t know. I agree that that’s a contradiction. I’m not a campaign strategist for the right, so I don’t really know how to sell those two things. I guess one would try to understand them from the framework of the authoritarian mindset, where your ideal is a world of uncontested American hegemony, where there are no wars and there’s no intervention. They leave us alone in the sense that America is not being attacked. But we’re not being left alone in the sense that America still has economic domination and military bases around the world. There’s no effort to rein those things in prior to any of these wars starting.
On the international stage, maybe the position of America is closer to the authoritarian ideal than it is domestically, in the sense that America’s dominance in the world has been fairly unique, or at least there have only been a few countries in all of human history that have been that dominant. So, it’s closer to what their utopia would already be.
In a sense, they can speak about America First and isolationism in the context of that utopia, but as soon as there’s any challenge to that utopia, where Iran or the Palestinians or other types of groups are pushing back against it, then the traditional structure of suppressing the enemies comes back.
Those two poles go together. In the US context, the story is that the enemies have largely ruined the greatness of America, and it needs to be reclaimed. Whereas in the external context, it’s more like the greatness of America is already in place to some degree, and these things just need to be suppressed.
The Anti-Establishment Mood Will Continue to Shape US Politics
Finally, looking beyond the midterms, what indicators would you watch to judge the future direction of American politics: whether MAGA can survive Trump as a durable ideological movement; whether democratic socialism can move from insurgency toward broader influence inside the Democratic Party; whether institutional trust continues to erode; and whether AI-driven political communication further fragments the public sphere? In other words, are we moving toward a durable system of competing populisms operating inside increasingly personalized and technologically segmented information environments—or is there still a plausible route back toward a more shared, deliberative democratic politics?
Assoc. Prof. Nick Beauchamp: There are six big questions. Maybe working backwards, shared deliberative democratic politics was largely a fiction, or, if it existed, it was a brief product of a very limited television media environment in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. So, I don’t think there’s a route back to this, if it ever existed. Nor do I normally think that we necessarily want such a route as believers in democracy and so forth.
A fragmented media landscape with personalized news, personalized campaigns, and so forth is compatible with deliberation, as long as one’s able to explore this space freely and is not completely unaware of the things going on outside of it. That said, there are much more serious problems with democratic institutions. A lot really turns on the contingency of power in the US or even in the world.
Presumably, in 2028, some form of MAGA Republican, whether it’s J.D. Vance, Trump again, or some other figure, will probably be representing the Republican Party. So, it’s hard for me to believe that, absent some giant catastrophe, the center-right faction, which I still think exists, is gonna succeed in taking over the party. Usually, that happens after the party’s in the wilderness for a while, when you have this change of power.
So, the bigger question is going to be whether that MAGA candidate, whoever they are, is running against a progressive-left candidate or a center-left candidate. In terms of gaming out the election, if it’s a center-left candidate—and there are many more strong center-left candidates than there are progressive candidates, just in terms of polling at the moment—it’s gonna be a structurally challenging approach for the Democrats, because they’re going to be working within what I presume will still be an anti-incumbent, anti-establishment, pro-populist mood, both on the left and the right, and they’ll be running a more centrist establishment figure.
That figure will try to present themself as a figure of change, often probably using strong anti-MAGA or anti-Trump language and so forth. But they won’t necessarily be proposing anti-establishment policies in many cases. So, that’s going to create an interesting structure where, as they are in various primaries, the center left will be adopting many of the tones of the anti-establishment, but not many of the policies, while running against a far-right candidate who will presumably still be running on these very anti-establishment policies, but also will be running as the party that has been running the country for four years.
So, in that case, it’ll be an interesting mix of anti-establishment policies and pro-establishment identity or messaging on both sides. If, on the other hand, the contingency is such that a DSA or far-left candidate wins on the Democratic side, then we’d have a very different debate happening here, and the possibility of a very different set of outcomes.
So, again, unfortunately for scientists who like to study regularities rather than accidents, a lot of these things really depend on the accident of what’s going to happen. The only thing we can be fairly confident of is that I expect this anti-establishment mood will continue and will be shaping the environment in which these figures are contesting things in the near future.